From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Mon May 19 17:56:07 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Mon May 19 16:56:07 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Johnny Carson: we never used canned laughter Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D20111409E@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > Does anyone know if any of the current late night shows use > canned/sweetened laughter? I think only Mad TV, but I'm just > throwing the question out there. You're probably right. > SNL uses an applause track over the opening and closing > credits, I think that may be standard for most shows. Considering how much Michaels avoids anything canned, I don't buy it. The Emmy shows he produced were not sweetened on the fly and it was noticeable. The number of sketches that die with no response from the crowd on "SNL" is proof that he doesn't sweeten. > SNL sweetened the show once that I know of, the night of the > 1986 World series game 6. They taped the show for air the > following week as the game unexpectedly went way long (sorry, > Boston fans). A lot of the studio audience had gone home by > the time taping started at around 1:15 am. Since COM doesn't air 80s "SNL" right now, remind us next year when E! picks up the rest of the "SNL" contract and airs that show--my ear is pretty good when it comes to canned laughter and I'm sure if they sweetened, I would recognize it. Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Mon May 19 19:14:05 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Christopher Neuman) Date: Mon May 19 18:14:05 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] AMC gets confused Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030519170930.00b40ce0@mail.iems.northwestern.edu> Hi all - Should you be watching AMC in the next week and see the promo advertising the "All-American Weekend," take note of the stirring, patriotic music. For those of you who come from countries that can't play in the Commonwealth Games, the music they're using over pics of John Wayne and things blowin' up is ... God Save the Queen. Chris -- Christopher Neuman, Northwestern University Department of Industrial Engineering and Management Sciences http://users.iems.northwestern.edu/~cneuman Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight / Got to kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight -- Bruce Cockburn From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Mon May 19 19:24:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Mike Klein) Date: Mon May 19 18:24:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] AMC gets confused In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030519170930.00b40ce0@mail.iems.northwestern.edu> Message-ID: <00cc01c31e55$20c969b0$1500000a@seattle.corp.fluencygroup.com> Maybe because it is also the tune for "America (My Country Tis Of Thee)"? MAK -----Original Message----- From: tvbarn2-admin@tvbarn.com [mailto:tvbarn2-admin@tvbarn.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Neuman Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 3:14 PM To: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Subject: [tvbarn2] AMC gets confused Hi all - Should you be watching AMC in the next week and see the promo advertising the "All-American Weekend," take note of the stirring, patriotic music. For those of you who come from countries that can't play in the Commonwealth Games, the music they're using over pics of John Wayne and things blowin' up is ... God Save the Queen. Chris -- Christopher Neuman, Northwestern University Department of Industrial Engineering and Management Sciences http://users.iems.northwestern.edu/~cneuman Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight / Got to kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight -- Bruce Cockburn _______________________________________________ tvbarn2 mailing list tvbarn2@tvbarn.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/tvbarn2 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Mon May 19 23:50:08 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (rcurrlin) Date: Mon May 19 22:50:08 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] So NBC is a *little* ashamed of Fear Factor In-Reply-To: <20030519160235.DF69320FB6@three.pairlist.net> Message-ID: <20030520024944.49167.qmail@web10403.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tonight, NBC ran Fear Factor's 15 most outrageous moments. You would think at number 1, but certainly in those 15, would be the one where the contestants had to eat horse rectum (NBC felt the need to promote that episode with an ad in The New York Times when it first aired). The episode gained continued notoriety as the ad community and some tv critics finally felt the show had gone too far. CBS razzed the moment in their upfront presentation last week. The notorious horse rectums (recta?) went completely unmentioned in tonight's show. --roy --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 01:44:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (bradford) Date: Tue May 20 00:44:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] So Why Bother Renewing It? References: <20030520024944.49167.qmail@web10403.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c31e8a$59fd52c0$0200a8c0@q> >From Television Week: May 19, 2003 Dylan McDermott out of "The Practice" in major reshuffle Dylan McDermott will not return to "The Practice" this season as attorney Bobby Donnell as part of a major reshuffling of the cast on the long-running one-hour legal drama which airs on ABC, a spokesman for David E. Kelley Productions has confirmed for TelevisionWeek. Other cast members who will not return, effective immediately, are Kelli Williams, who played McDermott's wife; Lisa Gay Hamilton, who played an attorney; Lara Flynn Boyle, who portrayed Assistant District Attorney Helen Gamble; Marla Sokoloff, who portrayed receptionist Lucy Hatcher; and Chyler Leigh, who had joined the cast as attorney Claire Wyatt last season after the quick failure of Kelley's legal drama "Girl's Club." Producer David E. Kelley, who issued a statement about the cast changes, was said to be distraught over what had been done. It was apparently necessitated by a major cut in the license fee which ABC will pay for the show's 22 episodes this season. Sources told TelevisionWeek the license fee had been roughly cut in half to about $3.5 million per episode. The show, which has been on for seven seasons, is produced by Kelley and Twentieth Century Fox Television. "Due to economic and creative realities," Mr. Kelley said in a statement, "many key people will not be returning, including Dylan. It hurts, professionally and personally. This is perhaps the finest group of actors and people one could ever hope to work with. I hope for all of them to recur if possible, and if I'm lucky I'll get to work with them on future projects as well. I'm indebted to each and every one of them." Sources said that Mr. McDermott probably would return on several episodes as a guest. His contract was said to be up, according to sources, and if he returned, he was in line for a major increase in his compensation. Mr. McDermott and Miss Williams both appeared only last week in New York as part of the ABC network's presentation to advertisers for the new season. At the time ABC knew changes were ahead, but did not know the specifics, according to another sources. ABC issued the following statement: "For the past seven seasons, we've successfully relied on David E. Kelley's creative vision for 'The Practice,' and we'll continue to rely on his vision for the future of this series. While we're sorry to see these talented cast members leave the show, we're excited to discover what David has in store for 'The Practice' this Fall." Cast members who will return include Michael Badalucco, Steve Harris, Camryn Manheim and Jessica Capshaw, who joined the show only last season. Mr. Kelley is expected to add additional new cast members. "The Practice" had become caught up in controversy this past season after ABC moved the show from Sunday evening where it had enjoyed strong ratings to Monday night, where ratings fell sharply. Mr. Kelley had gone on record blasting ABC for moving the show. There were reports at the time that ABC did it, at least in part, because their contract was up and they wanted to pay less for a renewal. ABC has vigorously denied those allegations. This fall "The Practice" will return to its old time slot on Sunday evening at 10 p.m. Going into the upfront period, when schedules were set, it was unclear if any of Kelley Productions shows would return or be picked up. Instead, everything in consideration made a network schedule. In addition to "The Practice" on ABC, Kelley will have "Boston Public" back on Fox and a new show, "The Brotherhood of Poland, New Hampshire," on CBS. From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 02:00:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Stan Schwartz) Date: Tue May 20 01:00:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special Message-ID: <200305200456.h4K4uJAi017359@ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com> Any show that features appearances by Anson Williams AND Vinko Bogataj can't be all bad, but I had some nits to pick. I missed the first few minutes...did I miss either Tony Randall or Jack Klugman? Did ABC's history really include all of those Disney movies? What did 'Aladdin' and 'Little Mermaid' have to do with ABC's history? I was interested in seeing more early 'Disneyland' footage than another shot of 'Toy Story'. I think we saw Johnny Carson on this special more than on NBC's 75th Anniversary special last year. Since when was 'Columbo' considered an ABC show? After a while, it was more about watching to see who didn't show up for 'cast reunions': Ron Howard, Robin Williams, Jimmy Smits, anyone from the cast of 'Roseanne' (you mean BOTH Beckys were busy?), the cast of 'Sports Night'...well, you get the idea. Enough ranting from me for one night. -Stan From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 02:14:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Tue May 20 01:14:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] So Why Bother Renewing It? Message-ID: <50.1cfa1542.2bfb1334@aol.com> bradfordw@dwx.com writes: > Dylan McDermott out of "The Practice" in major reshuffle > > Dylan McDermott will not return to "The Practice" this season as attorney > Bobby Donnell as part of a major reshuffling of the cast on the > long-running > one-hour legal drama which airs on ABC, a spokesman for David E. Kelley > Productions has confirmed for TelevisionWeek. > > Other cast members who will not return, effective immediately, are Kelli > Williams, who played McDermott's wife; Lisa Gay Hamilton, who played an > attorney; Lara Flynn Boyle, who portrayed Assistant District Attorney Helen > Gamble; Marla Sokoloff, who portrayed receptionist Lucy Hatcher; and Chyler > Leigh, who had joined the cast as attorney Claire Wyatt last season after > the quick failure of Kelley's legal drama "Girl's Club." PGage writes... There are reasons why troubled organizations are in trouble -- they consistently make bad decisions. In any line of work, it seems a basic rule of an organization would be to build on strengths. *The Practice* may not be a jewel, but either it is a strength and should have been invested in, or a liability, and should have been canceled. Half-assed attempts to have your cake while cutting your costs are third rate. This is not how Walt conquered Anaheim... --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 02:54:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Paul Murray) Date: Tue May 20 01:54:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] A philosophical question about 'The Practice' Message-ID: <20030520055332.2557.qmail@web14311.mail.yahoo.com> Here's a new philosophical question, along the lines of, "If a tree falls in the woods but nobody hears it, does it make a sound?": "If 5/8ths of a show's cast leaves, was it really 'renewed'?" The details from Variety, for anyone who hasn't read the ticker (great headline BTW, whoever here posted it): *** Dylan McDermott and much of the cast of "The Practice" will not be returning to the David E. Kelley-created drama when it resumes in the fall. In addition to McDermott, Lara Flynn Boyle, Kelli Williams, Lisa Gay Hamilton and Marla Sokoloff have not been reupped for next year. Steve Harris, Camryn Manheim and Michael Badalucco will remain. [See the Ticker for the full story.] *** I gave up on 'The Practice' awhile ago after too many outrageous and preposterous storylines (I'm not sure if they were Kelley's doing or the result of inattention on his part). Killing off the DA (Jason Kravits) really ticked me off too; he was a great character. But I digress... I know several people who still love it, watch it faithfully, and were hoping it would return. I suspect their reaction will be, "Why did ABC bother?" And I have to agree. Why keep 'The Practice' on life support? ABC and 20thCFox should have let it die with dignity -- well, as much dignity as they had left after ABC messed with it. Good grief. Obviously the parties involved think they will still be able to make money. I think they've effectively killed the show and left it a walking zombie that fans will avoid like the, uh, plague. (Sorry about the tangle of metaphors.) Any predictions how long '3/8ths of The Practice' will last? ===== Paul Murray http://www.paulmurray.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 03:00:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Thomas, the Duck) Date: Tue May 20 02:00:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special In-Reply-To: <200305200456.h4K4uJAi017359@ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com> References: <200305200456.h4K4uJAi017359@ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EC9C410.204@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain >Since when was 'Columbo' considered an ABC show? Only for the last 14 years of Columbo TV-movies, with it being a tentpost in the otherwise dismal ABC Saturday Mystery Wheel. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 03:02:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Thomas, the Duck) Date: Tue May 20 02:02:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] A philosophical question about 'The Practice' In-Reply-To: <20030520055332.2557.qmail@web14311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030520055332.2557.qmail@web14311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EC9C45B.7080803@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain >The details from Variety, for anyone who hasn't read the >ticker (great headline BTW, whoever here posted it): I think we know who writes those. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 03:26:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (bradford) Date: Tue May 20 02:26:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] A philosophical question about 'The Practice' References: <20030520055332.2557.qmail@web14311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401c31e98$7a604e60$0200a8c0@q> In the early days of The Practice I had to be at work when it was on and taped it religiously. I had enjoyed Picket Fences and liked Kelley's courtroom scenes in both Fences and The Practice. But the last couple years they've been spending less time in court and more on what I considered to be soap opera storylines. There were many times this past season that I wondered why I was even watching - more out of habit than anything else. I would have been happy if the show had not been renewed. And now, as far as I'm concerned, it hasn't. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Murray" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 12:53 AM Subject: [tvbarn2] A philosophical question about 'The Practice' > Here's a new philosophical question, along the lines of, > "If a tree falls in the woods but nobody hears it, does it > make a sound?": > > "If 5/8ths of a show's cast leaves, was it really > 'renewed'?" > > The details from Variety, for anyone who hasn't read the > ticker (great headline BTW, whoever here posted it): > > *** > > Dylan McDermott and much of the cast of "The Practice" will > not be returning to the David E. Kelley-created drama when > it resumes in the fall. > > In addition to McDermott, Lara Flynn Boyle, Kelli Williams, > Lisa Gay Hamilton and Marla Sokoloff have not been reupped > for next year. Steve Harris, Camryn Manheim and Michael > Badalucco will remain. > > [See the Ticker for the full story.] > > *** > > I gave up on 'The Practice' awhile ago after too many > outrageous and preposterous storylines (I'm not sure if > they were Kelley's doing or the result of inattention on > his part). Killing off the DA (Jason Kravits) really ticked > me off too; he was a great character. But I digress... > > I know several people who still love it, watch it > faithfully, and were hoping it would return. I suspect > their reaction will be, "Why did ABC bother?" > > And I have to agree. Why keep 'The Practice' on life > support? ABC and 20thCFox should have let it die with > dignity -- well, as much dignity as they had left after ABC > messed with it. > > Good grief. > > Obviously the parties involved think they will still be > able to make money. I think they've effectively killed the > show and left it a walking zombie that fans will avoid like > the, uh, plague. (Sorry about the tangle of metaphors.) Any > predictions how long '3/8ths of The Practice' will last? From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 03:58:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Sue Trowbridge) Date: Tue May 20 02:58:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] TiVO question re: The Daily Show Message-ID: I set up a season pass on my TiVO for first-run eps of "The Daily Show," but even though the machine has been making its daily call successfully (I checked the logs), it somehow thinks that ALL eps of TDS are new and I've had to go through and delete them from the to-do list. Since TDS airs four times a day, this is kind of a chore. Anyone else having this problem, or have any idea what to do about it? Is it Comedy Central's fault for not alerting TiVO which shows are new and which are rebroadcasts? --Sue T. From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 04:02:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Tue May 20 03:02:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] TiVO question re: The Daily Show Message-ID: <191.19e8e16e.2bfb2cb4@aol.com> In a message dated 5/19/2003 11:58:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, trow@interbridge.com writes: > Anyone else having this problem, or > have any idea what to do about it? Is it Comedy Central's fault for not > alerting TiVO which shows are new and which are rebroadcasts? Yeah I'd say so - Comedy Central rarely seems to indicate the guest in its listings... If it doesnt interfere with anything else, just set up a recurring record block where it tapes Comedy Central for 30 minutes at a certain time each day. I have it tape it for me with a repeat recording at 7am PT, and then I just manually drop the Monday episode when I browse my "To Do" list. ~ --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 04:24:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jim Ellwanger) Date: Tue May 20 03:24:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] TiVO question re: The Daily Show In-Reply-To: <191.19e8e16e.2bfb2cb4@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, May 20, 2003, at 12:01 AM, SeanJordan@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/19/2003 11:58:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > trow@interbridge.com writes: > >> Anyone else having this problem, or >> have any idea what to do about it? Is it Comedy Central's fault for >> not >> alerting TiVO which shows are new and which are rebroadcasts? > > Yeah I'd say so - Comedy Central rarely seems to indicate the guest in > its > listings... Jon Stewart has even joked about this problem on the show, but apparently, even he couldn't shame Comedy Central into putting out better data. As you mention, it's not completely a lost cause: occasionally, full listing data will show up for an episode, but it usually doesn't appear until the day before that episode runs...and in my case, I've already deleted the repeats from the To Do list by then. But then after that brief glimmer of hope, for the next episode, the listing will be back to "a humorous slant on top news stories." Sigh. -- Jim Ellwanger "The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains." From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 04:32:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Mark Evanier) Date: Tue May 20 03:32:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] TiVO question re: The Daily Show In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 May 2003 02:57:18 -0400 (EDT), Sue Trowbridge wrote: >I set up a season pass on my TiVO for first-run eps of "The Daily Show," >but even though the machine has been making its daily call successfully = (I >checked the logs), it somehow thinks that ALL eps of TDS are new and = I've >had to go through and delete them from the to-do list. Since TDS airs = four >times a day, this is kind of a chore. Anyone else having this problem, = or >have any idea what to do about it? ME: Had the same problem. Went to the same solution the other folks mentioned: Set up a manual recording for one of the regular airings. I record the 7 AM broadcast and then delete the ones I don't want. ------------------------------ www.POVonline.com - a website about comic books, cartoons, TV, movies, Groo the Wanderer, Broadway, Las Vegas, Hollywood, Stan Freberg, Laurel & Hardy, Jack Kirby and possums in my backyard. From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 04:42:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Tue May 20 03:42:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] TiVO question re: The Daily Show Message-ID: <1e3.947e254.2bfb35cb@aol.com> In a message dated 5/20/2003 12:24:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, trainman1@mindspring.com writes: > But then after that brief glimmer of hope, for the next episode, the > listing will be back to "a humorous slant on top news stories." Sigh. Heh, while it has been this for as long as I can remember.... If you look forward to the week of 5/26 on your TiVo, the slightly inappropriate description now reads "Journalists cover events leading up to Operation Iraqi Freedom, the war itself and the aftermath." ~ --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 09:34:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jon Delfin) Date: Tue May 20 08:34:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] A philosophical question about 'The Practice' In-Reply-To: <20030520055332.2557.qmail@web14311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030520083241.00b4eab8@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> On the other hand, if Steve Harris will now be the de facto lead of the show, I might consider watching it again. jd At 10:53 PM 5/19/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Here's a new philosophical question, along the lines of, >"If a tree falls in the woods but nobody hears it, does it >make a sound?": > >"If 5/8ths of a show's cast leaves, was it really >'renewed'?" > >The details from Variety, for anyone who hasn't read the >ticker (great headline BTW, whoever here posted it): > >*** > >Dylan McDermott and much of the cast of "The Practice" will >not be returning to the David E. Kelley-created drama when >it resumes in the fall. > >In addition to McDermott, Lara Flynn Boyle, Kelli Williams, >Lisa Gay Hamilton and Marla Sokoloff have not been reupped >for next year. Steve Harris, Camryn Manheim and Michael >Badalucco will remain. > >[See the Ticker for the full story.] > >*** > >I gave up on 'The Practice' awhile ago after too many >outrageous and preposterous storylines (I'm not sure if >they were Kelley's doing or the result of inattention on >his part). Killing off the DA (Jason Kravits) really ticked >me off too; he was a great character. But I digress... > >I know several people who still love it, watch it >faithfully, and were hoping it would return. I suspect >their reaction will be, "Why did ABC bother?" > >And I have to agree. Why keep 'The Practice' on life >support? ABC and 20thCFox should have let it die with >dignity -- well, as much dignity as they had left after ABC >messed with it. > >Good grief. > >Obviously the parties involved think they will still be >able to make money. I think they've effectively killed the >show and left it a walking zombie that fans will avoid like >the, uh, plague. (Sorry about the tangle of metaphors.) Any >predictions how long '3/8ths of The Practice' will last? > > >===== >Paul Murray >http://www.paulmurray.net > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >tvbarn2 mailing list >tvbarn2@tvbarn.com >http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/tvbarn2 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 10:48:03 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Tue May 20 09:48:03 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] A philosophical question about 'The Practice' Message-ID: <22C2B011.21FE1A5E.0D1E17F3@aol.com> In a message dated 5/20/2003 12:53:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, pmurray63@yahoo.com writes: > "If 5/8ths of a show's cast leaves, was it really > 'renewed'?" The only plus for me is more onscreen time for Steve Harris. Has there ever been this much of a shakeup of cast in a series before? And my follow-up...were any of these shakeups successful? Following Michael J. Fox's departure for "Spin City" it seemed like half the cast bailed...maybe just the women? I'm not sure whether it was unwatchable because of Charlie Sheen and Heather Locklear dominating the show, or because people like Connie Britton were gone. --Ann From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 11:42:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jim Ellwanger) Date: Tue May 20 10:42:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] TiVO question re: The Daily Show In-Reply-To: <1e3.947e254.2bfb35cb@aol.com> Message-ID: <1C8AB7E0-8AD1-11D7-A2FC-00306557D044@mindspring.com> On Tuesday, May 20, 2003, at 12:39 AM, SeanJordan@aol.com wrote: > Heh, while it has been this for as long as I can remember.... If you > look > forward to the week of 5/26 on your TiVo, the slightly inappropriate > description now reads "Journalists cover events leading up to > Operation Iraqi > Freedom, the war itself and the aftermath." Alas, my TiVo is on the fritz right now (it's stuck on the "Welcome. Powering up" screen after I reset it because it was frozen on a frame of a show it was recording). I'm having withdrawal symptoms already. -- Jim Ellwanger "The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains." From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 12:48:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Keith Privett) Date: Tue May 20 11:48:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] TiVO question re: The Daily Show In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030520154606.88339.qmail@web10001.mail.yahoo.com> And when CC indicated a guest in the listings, it would immediately date the show to the guest's first appearance... I have a fixed recording for the 10pm shows, delete the fridays, and select an alternate airing in the event of a conflict. Expect it to be worse now that its solely owned by Viacom. MTV and VH1 are especially notorious for providing inaccurate information. (e.g. I want to record "Sex 2k" and get a "Cribs" special instead... --- Jim Ellwanger wrote: > On Tuesday, May 20, 2003, at 12:01 AM, SeanJordan@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/19/2003 11:58:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > trow@interbridge.com writes: > > > >> Anyone else having this problem, or > >> have any idea what to do about it? Is it Comedy Central's fault for > >> not > >> alerting TiVO which shows are new and which are rebroadcasts? > > > > Yeah I'd say so - Comedy Central rarely seems to indicate the guest in > > its > > listings... > > Jon Stewart has even joked about this problem on the show, but > apparently, even he couldn't shame Comedy Central into putting out > better data. As you mention, it's not completely a lost cause: > occasionally, full listing data will show up for an episode, but it > usually doesn't appear until the day before that episode runs...and in > my case, I've already deleted the repeats from the To Do list by then. > But then after that brief glimmer of hope, for the next episode, the > listing will be back to "a humorous slant on top news stories." Sigh. > > -- > Jim Ellwanger > > "The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains." > > _______________________________________________ > tvbarn2 mailing list > tvbarn2@tvbarn.com > http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/tvbarn2 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 13:22:06 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Tue May 20 12:22:06 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] TiVO question re: The Daily Show Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140A4@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > Expect it to be worse now that its solely owned by Viacom. > MTV and VH1 are especially notorious for providing inaccurate > information. (e.g. I want to record "Sex 2k" and get a > "Cribs" special instead... On the other hand, generally Nick/NAN, TVL and the soon-to-be Spike TV don't move around schedules at whim the way the "music" channels do. And I'm wondering when Viacom will sue the Flash animation web site originally behind "Behind the Music That Sucks" and Rainbow for airing it on Fuse/the former Much USA. Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 13:24:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Keith Privett) Date: Tue May 20 12:24:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special In-Reply-To: <200305200456.h4K4uJAi017359@ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030520162236.35337.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> The ghost of NBC was felt around the whole thing... Many of the featured folks had NBC very prominently on their resume before ABC: Peter Falk as Columbo, Barbara Walters, Michael J. Fox, Denniz Franz, Jim Belushi, Oscar hosts Bob Hope and Johnny Carson, even George Clooney was on Facts of Life before Rosanne. The odd disparity on the World Of Disney segment was that it had to claim the pre-and post NBC eras of the show. The post NBC era was heavily dependent on animation rereleases. Notice that since NBC is the Olympic network, all of ABC's Olympic and other non-NFL coverage was shown under Wide World of Sports. But no NBA, no MLB, no Superstars, no Battle of the Network Stars - Though longtime ABC team captain Gabe Kaplan made an early showing. But my 4 favorite moments were... The details of Alias-Columbo crossover such as "you will be going to Kooajagoogoo" Barbara Walters openly stating how Hawwy Weasonew hated hew. At the beginning of the Levar Burton monologue leading to the montage on Roots, which dignified the African-American experience, cutting to a reaction shot of Jaleel "Urkel" White, who did not. Peter Jennings reporting without his pants on. --- Stan Schwartz wrote: > Any show that features appearances by Anson Williams AND Vinko Bogataj can't > be all bad, but I had some nits to pick. > I missed the first few minutes...did I miss either Tony Randall or Jack > Klugman? > > Did ABC's history really include all of those Disney movies? What did > 'Aladdin' and 'Little Mermaid' have to do with ABC's history? I was > interested in seeing more early 'Disneyland' footage than another shot of > 'Toy Story'. > > I think we saw Johnny Carson on this special more than on NBC's 75th > Anniversary special last year. > Since when was 'Columbo' considered an ABC show? > > After a while, it was more about watching to see who didn't show up for > 'cast reunions': Ron Howard, Robin Williams, Jimmy Smits, anyone from the > cast of 'Roseanne' (you mean BOTH Beckys were busy?), the cast of 'Sports > Night'...well, you get the idea. > > Enough ranting from me for one night. > -Stan > > > > _______________________________________________ > tvbarn2 mailing list > tvbarn2@tvbarn.com > http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/tvbarn2 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 13:28:05 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Anthony Foglia) Date: Tue May 20 12:28:05 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] TiVO question re: The Daily Show In-Reply-To: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140A4@exchange.krw.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 May 2003, Jeffries, Mark wrote: > > > Expect it to be worse now that its solely owned by Viacom. > > MTV and VH1 are especially notorious for providing inaccurate > > information. (e.g. I want to record "Sex 2k" and get a > > "Cribs" special instead... > > On the other hand, generally Nick/NAN, TVL and the soon-to-be Spike TV don't > move around schedules at whim the way the "music" channels do. You're obviously not an "Invader Zim" fan. About 90% of the time it's "scheduled" it's replaced at the last possible minute. Sometimes its early enough for TiVo to know, but sometimes not. Another example of TiVo's listings not knowing CC's schedule, it often doesn't get the show info for "South Park" until the day before, and it had the wrong info for last Wednesday night's "Primetime Glick." --Anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Don't you wish you didn't function, wish you didn't think beyond the next paycheck and the next little drink" -- "Woke Up This Morning," A3 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 13:38:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Tue May 20 12:38:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140A5@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > The ghost of NBC was felt around the whole thing... > > Many of the featured folks had NBC very prominently on their > resume before ABC: Peter Falk as Columbo, Barbara Walters, > Michael J. Fox, Denniz Franz, Jim Belushi, Oscar hosts Bob > Hope and Johnny Carson, even George Clooney was on Facts of > Life before Rosanne. > > The odd disparity on the World Of Disney segment was that it > had to claim the pre-and post NBC eras of the show. The post > NBC era was heavily dependent on animation rereleases. > > Notice that since NBC is the Olympic network, all of ABC's > Olympic and other non-NFL coverage was shown under Wide World > of Sports. But no NBA, no MLB, no Superstars, no Battle of > the Network Stars - Though longtime ABC team captain Gabe > Kaplan made an early showing. And very little on the Warner Bros. era of ABC--"77 Sunset Strip," "Maverick," "Hawaiian Eye." In fact, the pre-Goldenson eagle logo made more appearances than the giant lowercase "a" logo during the show. When they did a 25th anniversary show in 1977, Alan King did a brilliant bit based on his "Kraft Music Hall" routines about fall TV schedules, in which he made it very clear that ABC's early years were not all that golden. There should've been more of that, including references to "Turn-On," "Cop Rock" and some of ABC's other lower moments. During the news segment, they could've brought up the "if Vietnam was on ABC, it would be cancelled in 13 weeks" joke--and pointed out that ABC did a weekly prime time series covering the week in Vietnam for a couple of years in the late 60s. And no Lawrence Welk, despite the fact that he carried the network on Saturday nights for 16 years. And doing a game/reality clip segment without "The Newlywed Game" and "Family Feud"--both of which had sucessful stints in prime time ("Newlyweds" as a series and "Feud" as celebrity specials) in addition to their daytime run? And the fact that "Let's Make a Deal" was included--another NBC castoff--supports Keith's contention about the pall of NBC hanging over the special. It seems to me that in addition to the clip and applausefest, Eisner could've commissioned a documentary series on the network's history for ABC Family (or A&E or History Channel). Considering that ABC in the 50s and 60s is really the template for contemporary network television, it would be an important and fascinating story. Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 13:58:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Tue May 20 12:58:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] A philosophical question about 'The Practice' Message-ID: <20030520.125612.-1908435.2.bob.in.jersey@juno.com> On Tue, 20 May 2003 09:47:47 EDT, Symposium1 at A-oh-swell wrote: > The only plus for me is more onscreen time for Steve Harris. > > Has there ever been this much of a shakeup of cast in a series > before? And my follow-up...were any of these shakeups successful? I keep wanting to think of "Law & Order" here, in both of your contexts, Ann; yet the turnover of cast there may not have been as abrupt. -- BOB dot in dot jersey at Juno dot com From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 15:14:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Tue May 20 14:14:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] TiVO question re: The Daily Show Message-ID: <1e0.952a07f.2bfbca24@aol.com> In a message dated 5/20/2003 9:28:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu writes: > Another example of TiVo's listings not knowing CC's schedule, it > often doesn't get the show info for "South Park" until the day before, and > it had the wrong info for last Wednesday night's "Primetime Glick." --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 15:20:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Tue May 20 14:20:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Glick / South Park Message-ID: <12c.2a930952.2bfbcba0@aol.com> In a message dated 5/20/2003 9:28:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu writes: > Another example of TiVo's listings not knowing CC's schedule, it > often doesn't get the show info for "South Park" until the day before, and > it had the wrong info for last Wednesday night's "Primetime Glick." I think SOUTH PARK listings not being there is due to to the fact that the episodes are often produced so last-minute to be current. From everything I've surmised, the networks dont always know what episode they'll be airing next week either. Now, I dont think this was completely the case with the most recent season, but the SARS scare wasnt going when they started ads so I'm not sure. As for GLICK... Been meaning to mention this... New episodes are now airing Thursday nights at 8pm ET, and the Wednesday slot it had for a couple of weeks has gone back to CHAPPELLE SHOW. Does anyone know if this was planned, or a result that CHAPPELLE brought in a different audience and got better ratings? I would say the network is almost burying the show, since if you dont catch new episodes at that timeslot, the only other chance you have is Saturday mornings at 7:30am ET. ... And GLICK isn't even getting the "later in the evening" airings that I think almost all the other CC shows get, like SOUTH PARK at 10 ET and again at 1 ET for those of us on the West Coast. I know many out here only have East Coast feeds of Comedy Central, meaning our only chance to watch GLICK is actually at 5pm PT on Wednesday, or 4:30am on Saturday. ~ --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 15:28:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Tue May 20 14:28:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] NEW FACE OF LATE NIGHT Documentary Message-ID: <44.315e3cd4.2bfbcd49@aol.com> If anyone gets the DISCOVERY TIMES channel (which I don't), and enjoy JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE like I do, I suggest checking out the documentary THE NEW FACE OF LATE NIGHT, airing tonight at 8pm and 11pm ET, or tomorrow at 4am, 7am, noon, and 3pm ET. Jimmy mentioned it last night briefly, more or less saying that it should be really bad.... He said a documentary crew followed him and his staff around for a week for this special, which is described on TiVo as "Making Jimmy Kimmek's Talk Show." ~ --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 15:32:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Tue May 20 14:32:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] NEW FACE OF LATE NIGHT Documentary Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140A7@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > If anyone gets the DISCOVERY TIMES channel (which I don't), > and enjoy JIMMY > KIMMEL LIVE like I do, I suggest checking out the documentary > THE NEW FACE OF > LATE NIGHT, airing tonight at 8pm and 11pm ET, or tomorrow at > 4am, 7am, noon, > and 3pm ET. > > Jimmy mentioned it last night briefly, more or less saying > that it should be > really bad.... He said a documentary crew followed him and > his staff around > for a week for this special, which is described on TiVo as > "Making Jimmy > Kimmek's Talk Show." On the ticker is the NY Times' review of the show by Laura Miller of salon.com ("to avoid possible conflict of interest"--Jayson Blair). The Times owns a piece of Discovery Times. It's an outright pan that calls Kimmel and his staff "boring" and "ordinary" off the air. What did she want--Kimmel, Dan Kellison poking each other in the eyes like the Three Stooges? Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 18:14:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Tue May 20 17:14:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140A8@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > Any show that features appearances by Anson Williams AND > Vinko Bogataj can't be all bad, but I had some nits to pick. > I missed the first few minutes...did I miss either Tony > Randall or Jack Klugman? No, neither one was there in person (and I don't recall any "Odd Couple" clips). Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 19:02:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Keith Privett) Date: Tue May 20 18:02:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special In-Reply-To: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140A5@exchange.krw.com> Message-ID: <20030520220037.30341.qmail@web10006.mail.yahoo.com> Oh and the absence of a Three's Company reunion was sort of another ghost of NBC, which aired its version of the ABC story - including IIRC, the "Vietnam" joke, as Joyce Dewitt's tell-all telepic exactly seven days prior... And actually, the whole enterprise seemed like a pale imitation of an Oscarcast, from Jennifer Garner's dress to the odd dance numbers (a 50's sweater with the current abc logo? geez), to large number of people accumulating on stage with nothing to say, to the giant family album bleacher shot at the end. C'mon, I'd love to hear what the "agony of defeat" guy had to say... (And somebody hates Bob Saget... he seemed to disappear from the Full House and AFHV clips) But at least Dick Clark got an appropriately good seat... "Jeffries, Mark" wrote:Content-Type: text/plain > The ghost of NBC was felt around the whole thing... > > Many of the featured folks had NBC very prominently on their > resume before ABC: Peter Falk as Columbo, Barbara Walters, > Michael J. Fox, Denniz Franz, Jim Belushi, Oscar hosts Bob > Hope and Johnny Carson, even George Clooney was on Facts of > Life before Rosanne. > > The odd disparity on the World Of Disney segment was that it > had to claim the pre-and post NBC eras of the show. The post > NBC era was heavily dependent on animation rereleases. > > Notice that since NBC is the Olympic network, all of ABC's > Olympic and other non-NFL coverage was shown under Wide World > of Sports. But no NBA, no MLB, no Superstars, no Battle of > the Network Stars - Though longtime ABC team captain Gabe > Kaplan made an early showing. And very little on the Warner Bros. era of ABC--"77 Sunset Strip," "Maverick," "Hawaiian Eye." In fact, the pre-Goldenson eagle logo made more appearances than the giant lowercase "a" logo during the show. When they did a 25th anniversary show in 1977, Alan King did a brilliant bit based on his "Kraft Music Hall" routines about fall TV schedules, in which he made it very clear that ABC's early years were not all that golden. There should've been more of that, including references to "Turn-On," "Cop Rock" and some of ABC's other lower moments. During the news segment, they could've brought up the "if Vietnam was on ABC, it would be cancelled in 13 weeks" joke--and pointed out that ABC did a weekly prime time series covering the week in Vietnam for a couple of years in the late 60s. And no Lawrence Welk, despite the fact that he carried the network on Saturday nights for 16 years. And doing a game/reality clip segment without "The Newlywed Game" and "Family Feud"--both of which had sucessful stints in prime time ("Newlyweds" as a series and "Feud" as celebrity specials) in addition to their daytime run? And the fact that "Let's Make a Deal" was included--another NBC castoff--supports Keith's contention about the pall of NBC hanging over the special. It seems to me that in addition to the clip and applausefest, Eisner could've commissioned a documentary series on the network's history for ABC Family (or A&E or History Channel). Considering that ABC in the 50s and 60s is really the template for contemporary network television, it would be an important and fascinating story. Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- _______________________________________________ tvbarn2 mailing list tvbarn2@tvbarn.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/tvbarn2 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 20:54:05 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jim Ellwanger) Date: Tue May 20 19:54:05 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special In-Reply-To: <20030520220037.30341.qmail@web10006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B1FB6AD-8B1E-11D7-A2FC-00306557D044@mindspring.com> On Tuesday, May 20, 2003, at 03:00 PM, Keith Privett wrote: > C'mon, I'd love to hear what the "agony of defeat" guy had to > say... If I recall correctly from previous "Wide World of Sports" anniversary shows, he doesn't speak much English. if at all. Must be a bizarre to be him, living a nice, quiet life in Slovenia, but every so often, they send him a plane ticket to come to the U.S. and spend 10 seconds waving to a TV camera, the only tradeoff being that he has to see himself wiping out on a ski jump one more time. By the way, some other things I learned from the ABC 50th anniversary show: - ABC started in February 1953 when "Make Room for Daddy" won an Emmy (I think that's what John Travolta said near the beginning of the show). - "Police Squad!" was a long-running hit cop show. - "Schoolhouse Rock" is the only Saturday morning show in ABC's history. - Cher, the Rolling Stones, and various members of the Jacksons are the only musical performers who have ever appeared on ABC. - "Thirtysomething" actually had a hyphen in the title. -- Jim Ellwanger "The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains." From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 21:00:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (John I. Carney) Date: Tue May 20 20:00:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special In-Reply-To: <4B1FB6AD-8B1E-11D7-A2FC-00306557D044@mindspring.com> References: <4B1FB6AD-8B1E-11D7-A2FC-00306557D044@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3ECAC158.8020400@localnet.com> Jim Ellwanger wrote: > > > - "Police Squad!" was a long-running hit cop show. > > - "Thirtysomething" actually had a hyphen in the title. > LOL! And "Barney Miller," briefly glimpsed in a couple of clip packages, was a less significant show than "Family Matters." I wrote a big long screed on this special that night, before this thread really got cranked up, and Mozilla locked up on me for some reason just as I was wrapping it up. I didn't have the heart to try to recreate it all. -- John I. Carney | jicarney@localnet.com | http://members.localnet.com/~jicarney ... LEAdership in MISsions: http://www.leamis.org * TagZilla 0.041 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 21:22:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Tue May 20 20:22:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140AA@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > By the way, some other things I learned from the ABC 50th anniversary > show: > > - ABC started in February 1953 when "Make Room for Daddy" won an Emmy > (I think that's what John Travolta said near the beginning of > the show). Since when did they give Emmys in February? > - "Police Squad!" was a long-running hit cop show. Not to mention a hit sitcom. > - "Schoolhouse Rock" is the only Saturday morning show in > ABC's history. When given a choice between plugging Cartoon Network ("Scooby-Doo" is perhaps ABC's most popular Saturday morning show of all time) or plugging Unca Walt's current output (which they share with Disney Channel) and getting reamed by critics ("Ladies and gentlemen, from 'Lizzie McGuire,' Hillary Duff..."), they decided to do neither and focus on the safest feature of their Saturday morning programming--not to mention a key demos nostalgia point, which was the whole idea of the special in the first place. > - Cher, the Rolling Stones, and various members of the > Jacksons are the > only musical performers who have ever appeared on ABC. "We're not doing a show for those stupid kids who listen to KROQ! We're doing it for the 18-to-49 female demo!" > - "Thirtysomething" actually had a hyphen in the title. Not to mention the first letter being capitalized (although the critics who hated "yuppiesomething" usually treated the title the same way they treated the title of "girls club"--"No network executive is going to tell me how to capitalize--haven't they read the AP Stylebook?" Which makes me want to quote again the last time Jay Leno was ever funny--"This 'thirtysomething' show--they've got these yuppies sitting around whining, 'What about my needs? What about my needs?' WELL, WHAT ABOUT *MY* NEED--MY NEED TO BE ENTERTAINED! HOW 'BOUT A CAR CRASH ONCE IN A WHILE?" Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 21:28:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Tue May 20 20:28:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140AB@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > And "Barney Miller," briefly glimpsed in a couple of clip > packages, was > a less significant show than "Family Matters." But to the younger end of the target demographic, all those people on "Barney Miller" are old people or dead now. Urkel's now HOOOOOOOOTTTT! Well, CBS now has a 75th anniversary special due this year (in November sweeps, probably). Hope Les has more of a hold on his network's history than Lloyd and Susie-Q. Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 22:22:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Tue May 20 21:22:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] A philosophical question about 'The Practice' Message-ID: <186.1a169f72.2bfc2e83@aol.com> In a message dated 5/20/2003 1:55:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pmurray63@yahoo.com writes: > I gave up on 'The Practice' awhile ago after too many > outrageous and preposterous storylines (I'm not sure if > they were Kelley's doing or the result of inattention on > his part). Killing off the DA (Jason Kravits) really ticked > me off too; he was a great character. But I digress... > I never liked the Jason Kravtis character -- he was the beginning of the "jump the shark" time for me -- but I loved "The Practice" in its first few season. As with every David E. Kelley show, however, it got weird, it got awful, the characters became wholely unlikable. It will always be my last DEK show. He ruined "Picket Fences" and he wrecked this. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. > Obviously the parties involved think they will still be > able to make money. I think they've effectively killed the > show and left it a walking zombie that fans will avoid like > the, uh, plague. (Sorry about the tangle of metaphors.) Any > predictions how long '3/8ths of The Practice' will last ABC has so many problems still left with their schedule. I think they've been the #4 network for most of the last few months. Their most successful non-reality program is probably "NYPD Blue" which is what, 10 years old? For all the talk that the new Tuesday sitcoms are hits, do you know anyone watching them? There are too many things that need fixing. Bringing this show back, even in its weird form, is better than trying to start something from scratch, promote it and get it off the ground. They can spend their time trying to promote Karen Sisco or one of the new programs. TVG --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Tue May 20 22:40:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jim Ellwanger) Date: Tue May 20 21:40:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special In-Reply-To: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140AA@exchange.krw.com> Message-ID: <02B70ED1-8B2D-11D7-A2FC-00306557D044@mindspring.com> On Tuesday, May 20, 2003, at 05:14 PM, Jeffries, Mark wrote: >> - ABC started in February 1953 when "Make Room for Daddy" won an Emmy >> (I think that's what John Travolta said near the beginning of >> the show). > > Since when did they give Emmys in February? According to Brooks and Marsh, they were handed out in February from 1952 through 1954. It looks like the Emmys weren't regularly given out in September until 1977...they were given in the spring, usually in May, until then. Anyway, the Emmy in question was actually given in February 1954 (for programs airing during 1953), for Best New Program, shared with another ABC show, "The U.S. Steel Hour," which also won the Emmy that year for Outstanding Dramatic Program. -- Jim Ellwanger "The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains." From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 00:30:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Tue May 20 23:30:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Kryptonite! (Smallville Request) Message-ID: Sorry for the perceived waste of bandwidth, but my VCR turned off 1 minute into taping tonight's "Smallville" season finale. If anyone has it on tape (or can tape it if on the West Coast) I will be most appreciative and will shoot out a replacement VHS tape and postage-paid mailer ASAP. Thanks in advance! Ron Casalotti Wayne, NJ --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 01:38:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Paul Murray) Date: Wed May 21 00:38:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special Message-ID: <20030521043643.93042.qmail@web14302.mail.yahoo.com> Responding to various comments... ******* >But my 4 favorite moments were... [snip] >Peter Jennings reporting without his pants on. Sounds like someone's been watching too much Letterman. ("What?!? What?!?") ****** >There should've been more of that, including references to "Turn-On," "Cop Rock" and some of ABC's other lower moments. Yeah, wasn't "Turn-On" the only show ever to be canceled DURING the airing of its first episode? You're right, that's a record that they should have acknowledged and chuckled about. It can never be topped, after all, unless you count Fox canceling shows that never aired -- which is just plain cheating, it seems to me. ****** >It seems to me that in addition to the clip and applausefest, Eisner could've commissioned a documentary series on the network's history for ABC Family (or A&E or History Channel). Considering that ABC in the 50s and 60s is really the template for contemporary network television, it would be an important and fascinating story. I agree completely. But somehow I don't think that's a priority at ABC right now. ****** >(And somebody hates Bob Saget... he seemed to disappear from the Full House and AFHV clips) Somebody? (That was too easy, but I had to.) ****** > I think we saw Johnny Carson on this special more than on NBC's 75th Anniversary special last year. That might say more about NBC than ABC. Of course, Johnny wouldn't play ball and put in an appearance, so NBC probably said the heck with him. ****** I didn't see it, but all in all, it sounds like it was another example of selective network memory syndrome (SNMS). Hmmm. When is Fox's next major anniversary? Maybe we could start planning their special for them... ;) ===== Paul Murray http://www.paulmurray.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 02:18:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Greg Schienke) Date: Wed May 21 01:18:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Kryptonite! (Smallville Request) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3n2mcvs1blrb5tinspota6db12gcjio7lc@4ax.com> TheKid1955@aol.com wrote: >Sorry for the perceived waste of bandwidth, but my VCR turned off 1 = minute=20 >into taping tonight's "Smallville" season finale.=20 HA! I got you beat. I forgot to turn my VCR off so I missed it all together. However, check your listing for Sunday (or Saturday). The episode will be rerun as part of the WB's "rerun weekend" or whatever it is called. I'm in the Central time zone and Smallville is on at 4 PM Sunday here. Greg From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 02:54:03 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 01:54:03 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] A Couple of Stupid TV Questions Message-ID: <20030520.225306.12372.45609@webmail07.lax.untd.com> 1) How far back did Carson Daly tape his most recent Las Vegas episodes of "Last Call?" I'm wondering because Dylan McDermott was a guest on tonight's show, and it appeared it was taped before it was announced McDermott was being dumped from the "Practice." 2) Here's an odd one -- has Fox scrapped "Celebrity Boxing?" I remember Fox promoting a third edition shortly after the second card aired, but there's no listing on the Fox website. Given that the ratings were decent for the two specials, I was surprised Fox didn't try a third edition as a sweeps stunt. James ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 11:08:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 10:08:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] A Couple of Stupid TV Questions Message-ID: <4D27A4C9.1D01297F.0D1E17F3@aol.com> In a message dated 5/21/2003 12:53:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, jdinan@juno.com writes: > 2) Here's an odd one -- has Fox scrapped "Celebrity Boxing?" I remember Fox promoting a third edition shortly after the second card aired, but there's no listing on the Fox website. Given that the ratings were decent for the two specials, I was surprised Fox didn't try a third edition as a sweeps > stunt. I haven't heard of a third special being scheduled. As for the ratings, I can't remember what the nationals were, but in my market there was significant dropoff on the second one (from 11.5/16 to 6.8/10) and the latter was in a sweep, which affects the local affiliates more. It might also be hard to sell to advertisers. --Ann From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 13:58:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (J B) Date: Wed May 21 12:58:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Practice & NBC In-Reply-To: <20030521160227.C240320F40@three.pairlist.net> Message-ID: <20030521165728.47089.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Well, Law & Order was really the first show that proved you could have the ratings hold up even with massive cast changes but wasn't The Practice centered around Dylan's character versus Law & Order which is really about a precinct and their interaction with the DA's office - more procedural than personality driven? But it'll be interesting to see if they pull it off. As for the ABC special - missed it but I think i'm enjoying your comments more than if I had seen it. I do have to give NBC credit (there's a surprise) a while back when they did a MUST SEE THURSDAY special - they didn't devote much time out of the two hour special but they did give about 10 minutes to talking about the crapfest shows bookending the masive cultural hits (they didn't call them 'crapfest' :-) but at least they didn't sweep them under the rug. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 14:04:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Sue Trowbridge) Date: Wed May 21 13:04:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale Message-ID: First of all, a big thank you to everybody who answered my question about TiVO'ing The Daily Show. I set up a manual season pass for the show, and that seems like a much better way to handle it than clearing several reruns a day from the to-do list. 24 spoilers 24 spoilers 24 spoilers 24 spoilers 24 spoilers 24 spoilers 24 spoilers I really have to get this off my chest -- I hated the 24 season finale!!! I can't believe I stuck with it all season, hoping that it would come to a satisfactory conclusion. Sure, *some* of the bad guys wound up dead, but the upper echelon bad guys are still with us, and still wreaking havoc. And ending it with a cliffhanger re: David Palmer is unforgivable, IMO. Why, oh why can't every season be self-contained? This feels like a slap in the face to the people who have been loyal viewers all year long. I think the season really went downhill after the B-O-M-B went off. When the season comes out on DVD, I hope someone counts how many people Jack kills during the course of the day. I guesstimated about 50. Even after he came back from the dead & started having chest pains, he must've dispatched at least 15-20 people. Sheesh. --Sue T. From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 15:30:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 14:30:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] RE: ABC 50th Anniversary special Message-ID: <005f21623181553WEBMAIL1@webmail1.carolina.rr.com> >Hmmm. When is Fox's next major anniversary? Maybe we could >start planning their special for them... ;) Yes, I can't wait to see the cast reunion of "Whoops!" ;-) And speaking of Brooks & Marsh, is there any word of an 8th edition? The current version is getting a bit dated for my taste. -Stan From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 15:34:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Wed May 21 14:34:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] RE: ABC 50th Anniversary special Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140AD@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > And speaking of Brooks & Marsh, is there any word of an 8th > edition? The current version is getting a bit dated for my > taste. Jon Delfin told us in this group a year or so ago that the publisher of the series, Ballantine, shut down their reference division, which the Brooks & Marsh series fell under. It is entirely likely that the book could be taken to a new publisher, but as far as I know, nothing has occurred--yet. Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 16:00:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Anthony Foglia) Date: Wed May 21 15:00:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 May 2003, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > > 24 spoilers > > 24 spoilers > > 24 spoilers > > 24 spoilers > > 24 spoilers > > 24 spoilers > > 24 spoilers > > I really have to get this off my chest -- I hated the 24 season finale!!! > I can't believe I stuck with it all season, hoping that it would come to a > satisfactory conclusion. Sure, *some* of the bad guys wound up dead, but > the upper echelon bad guys are still with us, and still wreaking havoc. > And ending it with a cliffhanger re: David Palmer is unforgivable, IMO. > Why, oh why can't every season be self-contained? This feels like a slap > in the face to the people who have been loyal viewers all year long. I > think the season really went downhill after the B-O-M-B went off. I'll second that, Sue. I started hating it when Kingsley got shot from the front while staring down Jack. And that was just the tip of the iceberg. How did Kate and Kim get to Jack so quickly at the end? And David's refusal to accept the VP's resignation is the strongest proof the VP was right in taking power. How did that crowd gather so quickly for Palmer's speech? Was the girl he shook hands with supposed to look familiar? I had all but decided to stop watching "24" in the fall, and the finale just made me more confident in my decision. (The show had already lost so much interest for me, I started watching episodes at triple-speed with captions on, and didn't miss anything.) "24" is the new "X-Files". A show where the creators are making things up while they go along, shocking for shock alone, and it painfully shows. --Anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------- "If you're lucky, life is going to give you one shot at true love." -- Al Calavicci, Quantum Leap: MIA From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 16:18:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 15:18:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] A Couple of Stupid TV Questions Message-ID: <24.3ea1301b.2bfd2aa5@aol.com> In a message dated 5/21/2003 7:08:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Symposium1@aol.com writes: > I haven't heard of a third special being scheduled. There was a third CB scheduled for like last spring or summer, as I distinctly recall alerting some local DJs to it, but no guests were ever announced, nor did it ever happen... Sean --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 16:24:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 15:24:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Kryptonite! (Smallville Request) Message-ID: <60217337.41B3558C.3EDC32AA@aol.com> In a message dated 5/20/2003 10:28:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, TheKid1955 writes: > Sorry for the perceived waste of bandwidth, but my VCR turned off 1 minute > into taping tonight's "Smallville" season finale. If anyone has it on tape > (or can tape it if on the West Coast) I will be most appreciative and will > shoot out a replacement VHS tape and postage-paid mailer ASAP. > > Thanks in advance! > > Ron Casalotti > Wayne, NJ > WPIX usually reruns "Smallville" as part of the WB Easyview on Sundays. This week it should be on at 5pm TVG From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 16:26:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jon Delfin) Date: Wed May 21 15:26:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] RE: ABC 50th Anniversary special In-Reply-To: <005f21623181553WEBMAIL1@webmail1.carolina.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030521152141.00b4c180@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> At 06:23 PM 5/21/2003 +0000, you wrote: >>Hmmm. When is Fox's next major anniversary? Maybe we could >>start planning their special for them... ;) > >Yes, I can't wait to see the cast reunion of "Whoops!" ;-) > > >And speaking of Brooks & Marsh, is there any word of an 8th >edition? The current version is getting a bit dated for my >taste. Seeing as how Random House (owner of Ballantine) more or less closed down the Reference division, I'm not optimistic. I just left a message with my editor at RH, and if there's good news, I'll share it. jd From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 16:34:09 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 15:34:09 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale Message-ID: <1c1.9e9ae63.2bfd2e82@aol.com> >24 spoilers> > >24 spoilers > > > >24 spoilers > > > >24 spoilers > > > >24 spoilers > > > >24 spoilers > > > >24 spoilers > > I dont think I was as quite as disappointed... Let down, sure, as I kinda expected more, but I saw most of what happened coming weeks ago. And being someone who tends to read a lot of quotes from producers of shows, I think I've known this season was going to have a cliffhanger leading directly into season three since maybe before the season ever started. To answer a question... I'm 99% sure the girl from the crowd in the end was the bodyguard of Kingsley whom we were introduced to the following week. As for the season going downhill after the bomb... I'd perhaps take that back a bit further and say it lost something when Nina made her last guest appearance... But then I'd likely have grown tired of a whole season of crazy plots with her, too. The one other thing that realy bothered me at the end was the way all the people in the government were suddenly good-but-misled people. The VP and Mike and the tortured guy seemed to know way too much more early on (the helicopter explosion... The set up with the torture and the cameras... The near-fatal fall of Michelle Forbes) to not be in the pocket of Kinglsey or vice versa, and know exactly what was going on all along. I guess maybe their plan was just to find this nuclear bomb and disgrace President Palmer, and Kinglsey used his one rogue Special Agent with the chip planted inside of him to kill all the other govt. agents so as to actually detonate the bomb... But really, it's hard not to imagine them all being in on the whole thing. My only question for season two is do you pick up the next day all deal with finding a cure for the President, or will it be 6 months down the road so that Jack can be healed and sleeping with Sarah Wynter, while also allowing Tony Almada's relationship to progress with Michelle... Sean --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 16:44:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 15:44:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Results of TRIO's Comedy Censorship Poll Message-ID: <6d.11810e05.2bfd307d@aol.com> There are some sad stats in this press release by TRIO... Not in all this=20 "uncensored" comedy, but things like 1 in 10 people thinking Bill Maher's=20 comments about suicide bombers was the "Most Offensive Comedic Moment of all= Time,"=20 or that 5 out of 10 blacks and 4 out of 10 women think SOUTH PARK should be=20 censored and edited for content... --------- GAYS & LESBIANS ARE TARGET OF MOST JOKES ON TV ACCORDING TO TR!O UNCENSORED=20 COMEDY POLL Amos =E2=80=98n=E2=80=99 Andy is Still Taboo on TV; Madonna, South Park, And= Andrew Dice=20 Clay Top Lists Of Most Offensive New York, May 21, 2003 -- Gays and Lesbians tend to be the target of most=20 jokes on TV; the 1950s TV series Amos =E2=80=98n=E2=80=99 Andy is still a li= ghtening rod for=20 controversy, and South Park is the show most Americans surveyed would censor= ,=20 according to the TR!O Uncensored Comedy poll released today. The telephone omnibus survey conducted by Harris Interactive Market Research= =20 was commissioned to complement TR!O=E2=80=99s June =E2=80=9CUncensored Comed= y=E2=80=9D month of=20 programming which examines =E2=80=9CWhat is funny?,=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CWhat i= s offensive?=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CWhat is=20 both?=E2=80=9D The poll addresses those issues of censorship as they relate= to comedy. Following are some of the poll=E2=80=99s highlights: Gays and Lesbians Target of Most Jokes More Americans (43%) feel that Gays and Lesbians are the target of the bulk=20 of jokes on television with jokes about Blacks (13%) coming in at a distant=20 second. Only 12% of those surveyed felt that jokes are spread out evenly am= ong=20 ethnicity and sexuality. =20 =20 Amos =E2=80=98n=E2=80=99 Andy Still Taboo The classic 1950s comedy series Amos =E2=80=98n=E2=80=99 Andy, featuring a r= epresentation of=20 blacks as slow-moving and easily out-witted, is still a hot button subject=20 even though it hasn=E2=80=99t been seen on television in over 40 years. 62%= of=20 Americans say they would not want to watch this show. Interestingly, signifi= cantly=20 more Blacks (46%) than Whites (32%) say they would watch the controversial s= eries=20 if it were aired today. =20 Don=E2=80=99t Joke About 9/11=20 Jokes about the 9/11 terrorist attacks are the most offensive say 38% of=20 Americans surveyed., with jokes about the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky affai= r=20 (25%) the next most offensive followed by jokes about the space shuttle disa= sters=20 (16%). Madonna=E2=80=99s Appearance on Letterman Is Most Shocking TV Moment of All=20= Time Americans cite Madonna=E2=80=99s repeating the =E2=80=9Cf=E2=80=9D word on T= he Late Show with David=20 Letterman (CBS) as the most shocking comedic TV moment of all time (25%)=20 followed by Bill Maher=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Csuicide bomber=E2=80=9D remark (13= %) on his now cancelled=20 "Politically Incorrect" (ABC). =20 South Park Should Be Censored=20 More than a third (34%) of television viewers said South Park should be=20 censored. The survey reveals that Blacks (50%) are more likely than Whites=20= (32%)=20 to cite the need for the show to be edited for content, with 29% of women=20 agreeing that South Park should be censored. Andrew Dice Clay Most Offensive Comic of All Time The title of the most offensive comedian of all time goes to Andrew Dice Cla= y=20 with 32% of American citing the foul-mouthed comic above Roseanne (21%),=20 Richard Pryor (11%), Don Rickles (7%), Eddie Murphy (6%) and Lenny Bruce (2%= ).=20 Clinton/Lewinsky Affair Deemed Both Funny and Offensive Scandal ranked high on the laugh barometer as 57% of Americans surveyed felt= =20 that the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky affair generated the funniest jokes.=20 Interestingly, 25% of Americans also said it generated the most offensive jo= kes;=20 only 9/11 jokes (38%) were deemed more offensive. =20 Additional poll highlights include : =C2=B7 Most Americans find out about the latest jokes by word of mout= h=20 (55%), with TV coming in second (43%), followed by e-mail (37%), radio (25%= )=20 newspapers (16%) and comedy clubs (9%). =C2=B7 Women are twice as likely as men to find sexual jokes offensiv= e =C2=B7 Two in five women think that South Park should be censored Complete poll available upon request. Harris Interactive conducted an omnibus study on behalf of TR!O. A=20 nationally representative sample of 1,000 Americans ages 18 or older were in= terviewed=20 by telephone using an unrestricted Random Digit Dialing (RDD) technique that= =20 significantly reduces serial bias and ensures that respondents with both lis= ted=20 and unlisted numbers are reached. Only one interview was conducted per=20 household. Interviews were conducted from May 1, 2003 to May 4, 2003. To ensure a reliable and accurate representation of the total national adult= =20 population, completed interviews were weighted to known proportions for age,= =20 gender, geographic region, and race. The margin of error for the total samp= le=20 is plus or minus 3%. TR!O is an entertainment cable television channel reflecting pop-culture TV:= =20 film, music, fashion, television and stage in its programming. TR!O is=20 available to over 18 million households via digital cable and satellite serv= ices. =20 For more information about TR!O, visit www.triotv.com or call 1-877-GET-TRIO= . TR!O is a program service of Universal Television Networks, part of the=20 Universal Television Group (www.universalstudios.com), a division of Vivendi= =20 Universal Entertainment (VUE), the U.S. based film, television and recreatio= n entity=20 of Vivendi Universal, a global media and communications company. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 16:46:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeff Metzner) Date: Wed May 21 15:46:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale In-Reply-To: <1c1.9e9ae63.2bfd2e82@aol.com> Message-ID: <00a501c31fd1$5c2f1040$6701a8c0@jbm> >24 spoilers> > >24 spoilers > > > >24 spoilers > > > >24 spoilers > > > >24 spoilers > > > >24 spoilers > > > >24 spoilers > > > To answer a question... I'm 99% sure the girl from the crowd in the end was > the bodyguard of Kingsley whom we were introduced to the following week. I thought it was "Mandy", the girl who jumped out of a plane (and then blew it up) in the very first episode. > My only question for season two is do you pick up the next day all deal with > finding a cure for the President... I don't see how it could be the *very* next day, since both the main characters are going to be in the hospital, but I could see it being within a week or so. (Unless Palmer actually dies, then it could be pretty much any time in the future.) From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 16:48:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jon Delfin) Date: Wed May 21 15:48:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale In-Reply-To: <1c1.9e9ae63.2bfd2e82@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030521154557.00b8d730@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> At 03:33 PM 5/21/2003 -0400, you wrote: >>24 spoilers> >> >24 spoilers >> > >> >24 spoilers >> > >> >24 spoilers >> > >> >24 spoilers >> > >> >24 spoilers >> > >> >24 spoilers >> > > > > > >To answer a question... I'm 99% sure the girl from the crowd in the end was >the bodyguard of Kingsley whom we were introduced to the following week. That wasn't Mandy? ALERT: Ballantine will issue the eighth edition of Brooks and Marsh in September!!! (Yay.) jd From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 16:54:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 15:54:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale Message-ID: <12d.2a09b6e6.2bfd32ed@aol.com> >I thought it was "Mandy", the girl who jumped out of a plane (and then blew >it up) in the very first episode. Oh, Mandy. She came and she gave without taking, so they sent her away ... --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 16:58:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jon Delfin) Date: Wed May 21 15:58:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] brooks and marsh Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030521155629.00b664a0@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345455428/qid%3D1053546221/sr%3D1-/102-0676510-7716122 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 18:22:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Wed May 21 17:22:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ABC 50th Anniversary special Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140B1@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > >But my 4 favorite moments were... > [snip] > >Peter Jennings reporting without his pants on. >From a 60s or 70s blooper reel--Head and shoulders shot of Jennings doing a film piece saying "This is Peter Jennings in...."--someone says "cut," and the camera pans down to show that he's wearing only his underwear below the waist, even though he has a coat, dress shirt and tie on. > Sounds like someone's been watching too much Letterman. > ("What?!? What?!?") > > ****** > > >There should've been more of that, including references to > "Turn-On," "Cop Rock" and some of ABC's other lower > moments. > > Yeah, wasn't "Turn-On" the only show ever to be canceled > DURING the airing of its first episode? You're right, > that's a record that they should have acknowledged and > chuckled about. It can never be topped, after all, unless > you count Fox canceling shows that never aired -- which is > just plain cheating, it seems to me. That was Tim Conway's joke (he was the guest star on the premiere, which has allowed him to use "Turn-On" in his list of bomb series he starred in). Actually, the show did make it all the way through on its only airing--it was just the switchboard operators at ABC stations that had them in the evenings that didn't make it to the end after all of the angry phone calls. Actually, at least "Turn-On" had a fresh look and feel to it for its time, with the all-white backdrops, the seeming seamless camera work from one sketch to the other (it was shot on film), the electronic music constantly in the background, the credits interspersed throughout the entire show and no laugh track, the use of animation from Bill Melendez. Unfortunately, the material was either too cornball or too smutty, without any sharp topical humor or a host (or anyone) for the viewers at home to like (as much as Rowan and Martin's routines on "Laugh-In" were cornball and obvious, they were long enough to give the viewers a little bit of comfort in what to many 1968 viewers was otherwise too fast an hour). Besides, contrition's good for the soul--especially souless network executives. Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 19:22:09 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 18:22:09 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale Message-ID: <175.1af2765d.2bfd55e3@aol.com> In a message dated 5/21/2003 12:48:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jondelfin@nyc.rr.com writes: > > > >>24 spoilers> > >>>24 spoilers > >>> > >>>24 spoilers > >>> > >>>24 spoilers > >>> > >>>24 spoilers > >>> > >>>24 spoilers > >>> > >>>24 spoilers > >>> > > > > > > > > > >To answer a question... I'm 99% sure the girl from the crowd in the end > was > >the bodyguard of Kingsley whom we were introduced to the following week. > > > That wasn't Mandy? > You mean Kate's sister Marie? No, and I bet a lot of viewers thought it was... Marie was shown in captivity a few scenes earlier talking to Kate and her father while in CSU custody... It took me a second to piece together that it was the bodyguard/assistant, but it was... ~ --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 19:26:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Anthony Foglia) Date: Wed May 21 18:26:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale In-Reply-To: <175.1af2765d.2bfd55e3@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 May 2003 SeanJordan@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/21/2003 12:48:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > jondelfin@nyc.rr.com writes: > > > > > > > >>24 spoilers> > > >>>24 spoilers > > >>> > > >>>24 spoilers > > >>> > > >>>24 spoilers > > >>> > > >>>24 spoilers > > >>> > > >>>24 spoilers > > >>> > > >>>24 spoilers > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To answer a question... I'm 99% sure the girl from the crowd in the end > > was > > >the bodyguard of Kingsley whom we were introduced to the following week. > > > > > > That wasn't Mandy? > > > > You mean Kate's sister Marie? No, and I bet a lot of viewers thought it > was... Marie was shown in captivity a few scenes earlier talking to Kate and > her father while in CSU custody... It took me a second to piece together that > it was the bodyguard/assistant, but it was... Didn't Kingsley stab his assistant with a letter opener for no reason other to say "Look at me! I'm eeevil!"? Personally I thought it might be Mandy, but I wasn't sure. --Anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------- "You dare agree with me! Prepare to meet your horrible doom!" -- Zim, Invader Zim: Megadoomer From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 19:44:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 18:44:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale Message-ID: <1d5.9f73bee.2bfd5aad@aol.com> In a message dated 5/21/2003 3:26:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu writes: > >>>>24 spoilers> > >>>>>24 spoilers > >>>>> > >>>>>24 spoilers > >>>>> > >>>>>24 spoilers > >>>>> > >>>>>24 spoilers > >>>>> > >>>>>24 spoilers > >>>>> > >>>>>24 spoilers > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Didn't Kingsley stab his assistant with a letter opener for no > reason other to say "Look at me! I'm eeevil!"? Went back and double checked on that one and you're right... Pulled out Season One DVD (man does that pilot look nice; as if it's a totally different show...) and double checked and you're absolutely right, that is Mia Kirschner as Mandy - the girl who blew up the plane in the first episode. Would've figured this out earlier, but her character isnt listed at IMDB and figured you meant Kate's sister. ~ --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 20:52:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (J B) Date: Wed May 21 19:52:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Stuff In-Reply-To: <20030521212402.9EF8E20F67@three.pairlist.net> Message-ID: <20030521235142.24501.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Brooks & Marsh's book was great though a little dry for my taste - though I wonder with sites such as TV Tome coming on fast not to mention IMDB covering TV series if anyone will still commit to a reference book. I have another TV book called Harry & Wally's Favorite TV shows that is hopelessly outdated but: the writing was full of appropriate humor and it was well researched and well written. It almost seems you really need a website that can get indepth because a series certainly changes from season to season versus a movie is a self contained 2 hour entity. NYPD Blue with Caruso is a different show and when Milch (spelling?) left, the show changed again. As for the Trio poll - very interesting. But in regards to gay jokes, if you threw out the :30 minutes of Will & Grace, that would offset about another 400 hours of television. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 21:08:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Wed May 21 20:08:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale Message-ID: <1d3.a2caada.2bfd6e7b@aol.com> Down here 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 In a message dated 5/21/2003 3:34:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SeanJordan@aol.com writes: > To answer a question... I'm 99% sure the girl from the crowd in the end was > the bodyguard of Kingsley whom we were introduced to the following week. No, it was Mandy who blew up the plane in the first episode last season. Mia Kirshner confirmed it on her website. And I'm guessing the guy on the boat is a Drazen. TVG --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 21:12:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Sue Trowbridge) Date: Wed May 21 20:12:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > In a message dated 5/21/2003 3:26:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu writes: > > > >>>>24 spoilers> > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > >>>>> > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > >>>>> > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > >>>>> > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > >>>>> > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > >>>>> > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > >>>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Didn't Kingsley stab his assistant with a letter opener for no > > reason other to say "Look at me! I'm eeevil!"? > > > Went back and double checked on that one and you're right... > > Pulled out Season One DVD (man does that pilot look nice; as if it's a > totally different show...) and double checked and you're absolutely right, that is > Mia Kirschner as Mandy - the girl who blew up the plane in the first episode. Wait a second -- the woman Kingsley stabbed (AssistantWithBigBreasts, as I dubbed her, Television Without Pity-style) was the woman who blew up the plane in the first episode of season one? Does that mean we have a really, *really* vast global conspiracy in place here? In that case, as long as Nina can somehow come back next season, maybe I can bring myself to watch Season Three... --Sue T. From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 21:30:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Roger Winston) Date: Wed May 21 20:30:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20030521182422.00b18cd8@pop.tde.com> At Wednesday 5/21/2003 08:10 PM -0400, Sue Trowbridge wrote: >Wait a second -- the woman Kingsley stabbed (AssistantWithBigBreasts, as I >dubbed her, Television Without Pity-style) was the woman who blew up the >plane in the first episode of season one? Does that mean we have a really, >*really* vast global conspiracy in place here? In that case, as long as >Nina can somehow come back next season, maybe I can bring myself to watch >Season Three... No, I think what people are saying is that Mandy (Mia Kirshner) is the woman who blew up the plane in the first season and is also the person with the fake palm last night. AssistantWithBigBreasts was played by someone else and was killed off last week by Kingsley. This is really getting confusing... Agreed that the season finale was kindof a dud. Weren't they saying in the promos a few weeks ago "And you won't believe who's behind it all!!" What, someone I don't recognize? Yeah, I don't believe that, since everything on 24 is usually tied to everything else. Latre. --Rog From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Wed May 21 21:34:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Anthony Foglia) Date: Wed May 21 20:34:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] 24 season finale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 May 2003, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > > In a message dated 5/21/2003 3:26:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu writes: > > > > > >>>>24 spoilers> > > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>24 spoilers > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > Didn't Kingsley stab his assistant with a letter opener for no > > > reason other to say "Look at me! I'm eeevil!"? > > > > > > Went back and double checked on that one and you're right... > > > > Pulled out Season One DVD (man does that pilot look nice; as if it's a > > totally different show...) and double checked and you're absolutely right, that is > > Mia Kirschner as Mandy - the girl who blew up the plane in the first episode. > > Wait a second -- the woman Kingsley stabbed (AssistantWithBigBreasts, as I > dubbed her, Television Without Pity-style) was the woman who blew up the > plane in the first episode of season one? Does that mean we have a really, > *really* vast global conspiracy in place here? In that case, as long as > Nina can somehow come back next season, maybe I can bring myself to watch > Season Three... No. AssistantWithBigBreasts (or AssWithBigBreasts for short) had no job other than stand there (with big breasts) and get stabbed. Mandy on the other hand was the lesbian/bisexual who blew up a plane solely to cover up stealing someone's ID and then killed her girlfriend when the latter tried to get more money. Mandy hadn't been seen since early in the morning on Day 1. She seemed to be a mercenary, so there's no reason to assume the two plots are linked. The conspiracy does seem pretty global though, with some evil organization run by Germans supporting Kingsley and the evil capitalists' plan to use the Islamist Second Wave terrorist group to bomb the US and forge the evidence for a war to raise the price of oil; and these are probably the same evil Germans for whom Nina worked and from whom she was loaned out to the Drazens. No word on what role the Cougar Pride feline-rights group has to play, though I'm betting it involves the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, strippers, Colombian drug runners, MADD, and a bugged FTD pick-me-up bouquet. --Anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------- A cynic is not merely one who reads bitter lessons from the past, he is one who is prematurely disappointed in the future. -- Sydney J. Harris From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 02:48:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Steve Timko) Date: Thu May 22 01:48:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Did anyone watch Hitler miniseries? Message-ID: Aaron panned the Hitler miniseries, although some other reviewers were more kind. After I heard it was supposedly been watered down, I wasn't interested in watching it. But I turned on the last 10 minutes on Tuesday night and I was intrigued. They showed the execution of Ernest Roehm during The Night of the Long Knives. That's when Hitler, after attaining power, turned on those who helped bring him to power. Roehm was head of the Brown Shirts, the thuggish Nazi paramilitary squad. Did the show deal with Roehm's homosexuality? Roehm is this odd cult figure among a small segment of the gay community. He was the most powerful openly homosexual public official in the 20th century, by some estimates. The Nazi party platform included plans to repeal laws making homosexuality illegal largely because of Roehm's influence. If you read some accounts of Roehm in the gay community, it's like they're saying the Nazi party was bad, but not really bad until Roehm's execution. If the show dealt with his homosexuality, it would have been more brave than I thought. Of course, not that I'm gay. Nor do I have a thing for Nazis. Or gay Nazis. Not that there's anything wrong with that. . . . Steve Timko _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 02:54:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (J B) Date: Thu May 22 01:54:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] New Face of TV: Kimmel/Discovery NY Times channel In-Reply-To: <20030521212402.9EF8E20F67@three.pairlist.net> Message-ID: <20030522055317.18048.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> As Jimmy Kimmel himself is pretty honest and straightforward and ABC has been fairly transparent about their process and if you've been reading the press pieces along so far - there's nothing too particularly insightful about the behind the scenes peek at the launch of the show. It's everything we've already read, seen or expect if you've been around actual TV production. Even if you know nothing about the business of TV, I'm not sure how much more you would know about late night TV and the launch of a daily show - it seems to gloss over everything very briefly - lots of shots of Kimmel walking though. Of course, with the rep of the NY Times this month, I suppose they'll take superficial but factual as a compliment today. And for those keeping score, Jay Leno got about 7 seconds of mention - Dave got a lot of mention. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 03:20:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Christopher Neuman) Date: Thu May 22 02:20:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Did anyone watch Hitler miniseries? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030522005833.00b44630@mail.iems.northwestern.edu> I was planning to watch the show, then read Aaron's review and thought otherwise, and then went ahead and ignored it (sorry, fearless leader). I enjoyed it, though I thought some of the acting a bit hammy. Robert Carlyle did very well. I did see Aaron's point about the shift in focus that rendered Stockard Channing's role to less than minimal. Yes, they did address Roehm's homosexuality, by having the SS burst in on him while in bed with another man. If you blinked at the wrong time, however, you might not have seen it. One of the reasons the series was changed and had bad press was the unfortunate comments of one of the producers comparing Bush to Hitler. That's obviously a horrible thing to say, and I don't think any semi-intelligent person would go so far as to seriously make that comparison. But the rise of the Nazi party was one of incredibly partisan politics, political dirty tricks that force government instability, and a clamping down on basic civil liberties, including the various freedoms and a thorough attack on privacy, in the name of fighting terrorism. Judging from some of the things Bush (or more particularly, his administration) have or would like to do, there is an eerie similarity to German politics during the Weimar Republic - not to suggest that what happened next then will happen now. Chris At 10:46 PM 5/21/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Aaron panned the Hitler miniseries, although some other reviewers were >more kind. After I heard it was supposedly been watered down, I wasn't >interested in watching it. But I turned on the last 10 minutes on Tuesday >night and I was intrigued. >They showed the execution of Ernest Roehm during The Night of the Long >Knives. That's when Hitler, after attaining power, turned on those who >helped bring him to power. Roehm was head of the Brown Shirts, the >thuggish Nazi paramilitary squad. >Did the show deal with Roehm's homosexuality? Roehm is this odd cult >figure among a small segment of the gay community. He was the most >powerful openly homosexual public official in the 20th century, by some >estimates. The Nazi party platform included plans to repeal laws making >homosexuality illegal largely because of Roehm's influence. If you read >some accounts of Roehm in the gay community, it's like they're saying the >Nazi party was bad, but not really bad until Roehm's execution. >If the show dealt with his homosexuality, it would have been more brave >than I thought. >Of course, not that I'm gay. Nor do I have a thing for Nazis. Or gay >Nazis. Not that there's anything wrong with that. . . . > >Steve Timko > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > >_______________________________________________ >tvbarn2 mailing list >tvbarn2@tvbarn.com >http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/tvbarn2 -- Christopher Neuman, Northwestern University Department of Industrial Engineering and Management Sciences cneuman@northwestern.edu http://users.iems.northwestern.edu/~cneuman Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime. - Ernest Hemingway From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 12:00:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Sandy McMurray) Date: Thu May 22 11:00:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Results of TRIO's Comedy Censorship Poll In-Reply-To: <6d.11810e05.2bfd307d@aol.com> Message-ID: > More Americans (43%) feel that Gays and Lesbians are the target of the > bulk > of jokes on television with jokes about Blacks (13%) coming in at a > distant > second. Only 12% of those surveyed felt that jokes are spread out > evenly among > ethnicity and sexuality. I guess bumbling, inept husbands/fathers weren't an option for this question. SMc -- Sandy McMurray, Chief Cook & Bottle Washer Technology in Plain Language http://www.TechStuff.ca/ From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 13:20:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Thu May 22 12:20:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] ...Schmiel, Schmozzle, Hasenpeffer Incorporated... Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140B8@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain >From the Philadelphia Daily News' Stu Bykofsky: Eddie Mekka, who was Carmine Ragusa on "Laverne & Shirley," plays - get this - Tevye in the Bucks County Playhouse production of "Fiddler on the Roof." ----------------- And he's not kidding... http://www.buckscountyplayhouse.com/playhouse/fiddler/fiddler.html I don't know whether to laugh, cry or throw up over this one. Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 16:34:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Pollak, Melissa) Date: Thu May 22 15:34:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Everything you could ever want to know about American Idol 2 Message-ID: To view the entire article, go to http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23319-2003May21.html?referrer =emailarticle Ruben Studdard Squeezes Into the 'Idol' Pantheon By Lisa de Moraes This is an example of Ms. de Moraes at her best -- which means that I think she nailed it (except for one minor quibble -- I admire Clay's rendition of "Bridge over Troubled Water"). Melissa who doesn't mind admitting she's a Claymate From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 17:04:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Pete Ahles) Date: Thu May 22 16:04:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Law & Order Pilot? Message-ID: <004f01c3209d$30a54e40$e20a0a0a@pete> Wasn't there supposed to be the Law & Order Pilot shown at 8 last night? Instead we saw a rerun from just a month ago. What happened? OK, maybe everyone else in the country was watching American Idol, but not me. Just wondering. Pete From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 17:12:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffrey Field) Date: Thu May 22 16:12:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Everything you could ever want to know about American Idol 2 Message-ID: <7389562.1053634208477.JavaMail.nobody@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> >This is an example of Ms. de Moraes at her best -- which means >that I think she nailed it (except for one minor quibble -- I >admire Clay's rendition of "Bridge over Troubled Water"). Another minor quibble: I think the finale of the original Survivor still holds the top spot in the reality TV ratings hall of fame. I have time-shifted each of the results shows, zipped through the numerous teases, recaps and other meaningless fluff, and been able to enjoy the phenomenon, yet save myself countless hours. I'm sure Jamie Kellner would have a problem with it, though. From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 19:18:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Thu May 22 18:18:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Law & Order Pilot? Message-ID: <20030522.181356.-1840213.0.bob.in.jersey@juno.com> On Thu, 22 May 2003 16:03:19 EDT, Pete Ahles wrote: > Wasn't there supposed to be the Law & Order Pilot shown at 8 last > night? Instead we saw a rerun from just a month ago. What > happened? That's what was advertised by Da Peacock. I'd taped the two new eps that followed, and noticed the earlier one had an '03 copyright. No clues... > OK, maybe everyone else in the country was watching American Idol, > but not me. Just wondering. Bless you, sir... :-) -- BOB dot in dot jersey at Juno dot com From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 20:32:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Sue Trowbridge) Date: Thu May 22 19:32:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Law & Order Pilot? In-Reply-To: <20030522.181356.-1840213.0.bob.in.jersey@juno.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 May 2003 bob.in.jersey@juno.com wrote: > On Thu, 22 May 2003 16:03:19 EDT, Pete Ahles wrote: > > Wasn't there supposed to be the Law & Order Pilot shown at 8 last > > night? Instead we saw a rerun from just a month ago. What > > happened? > > That's what was advertised by Da Peacock. I'd taped the two new eps > that followed, and noticed the earlier one had an '03 copyright. No > clues... I TiVO'd that L&O, and when I set it up yesterday afternoon, the onscreen program information described the '03 show that ran. But a L&O preview article in the morning paper made reference to their showing the pilot, so I thought perhaps TiVO was wrong. Alas, they were not. I have no idea what happened. But I was bummed, because I was hoping to see the pilot too. Speaking of L&O... [if you still haven't watched last night's 10 PM episode, this is a major spoiler!!!!!!] [spoiler spoiler spoiler...] [spoiler spoiler spoiler...] ...was anyone else disappointed with the outcome of the "pedophile celeb baby-dangler" episode? I mean, we never found out what happened to the baby. There was evidence that the baby was dead before the fire started, but that plot line was never resolved, was it? Instead, all of the emphasis in the latter half of the show was on the parents who pimped out their kid for $1M. I did like the way the 9 PM & 10 PM episodes were connected. And the 9 PM ep had *lots* of Briscoe & Green, which is always great with me. --Sue T. (Ruben who?) From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Thu May 22 22:10:12 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (David Burke) Date: Thu May 22 21:10:12 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Brooks & Marsh Message-ID: <20030523010812.52859.qmail@web11705.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I thought someone posted in an earlier incarnation of TV Barn that Ballantine had discontinued that division of its publishing house, and that the Brooks & Marsh book was no more. A reason to make it through the summer! --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 10:20:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jon Delfin) Date: Fri May 23 09:20:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Brooks & Marsh In-Reply-To: <20030523010812.52859.qmail@web11705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030523091650.00b71d98@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> At 06:08 PM 5/22/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > >I thought someone posted in an earlier incarnation of TV Barn that Ballantine had discontinued that division of its publishing house, and that the Brooks & Marsh book was no more. > >A reason to make it through the summer! That would be me. I am informed that while parent company Random House closed its reference division, that has no effect on such as Brooks & Marsh, which falls under the Ballantine umbrella. jd From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 14:20:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Fri May 23 13:20:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140BE@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain Bill Carter's NY Times article in the Ticker conjecturing that sooner or later "American Idol" will lose its cheese appeal to the snarky Gen-Whatevers who luuuuuuuuuuuvv that reality TV had me take another look at how Chicago's two young-skewing mini-newspapers covered the Wednesday night finale. In case you didn't know, since last fall the two dailies have been competing on another front besides their own mainline papers. Each paper has also been putting out a daily tabloid-size paper aimed at the 18-to-34 demographic that doesn't read newspapers. The Chicago Tribune's paper is called RedEye (because it tested well in focus groups) and the Chicago Sun-Times' is called the Red Streak (after the way the old Chicago Daily News used to label its editions, with a colored stripe down the right side of the paper). They're both 25 cents (although there's still a good amount of free copies handed out), and despite some differences they both do lots of short, short stories, lots of sports, lots of gossip, lots of entertainment, no editorials, hardly any financial news and a good amount of snarky writing (the Red Streak dismissed Celine Dion's Las Vegas opening with a "who cares?"), most of it repurposed from wire stories, syndication and the parent papers. Despite the usual cries of "dumbing down" that greeted the debut of the papers from the chattering classes, the papers have distinguished themselves by treating left-of-center views with a good deal of respect, particularly in regard to the Iraq conflict (the RedEye also carries Reuben the Dancing Bug, Schlock and Roll and This Modern World, strips that had no home in Chicago because the two alt-weeklies seem to have an aversion to political comics--Tom Tomorrow's strip's Chicago home until the RedEye was the public access slideshow channel on cable--while the Red Streak carries Ted Rall's cartoons and Zippy the Pinhead). The RedEye's other notable feature is a daily pullout section from the Tribune's Metromix entertainment guide web site. OK, enough exposition--here's how the two young-skewing tabs covered the "Idol" finals yesterday. The RedEye had a big photo of Reuben Stoddard dominating the front page, with a headline noting the (alleged) thin margin of victory. The headline refered to a package on pages 10 and 11, where the paper puts most front page (or what they call "cover") stories, which contained a summary by the paper's free-lance TV writer (who seems to devote almost of his columns to recaps of reality shows) and a couple of sidebars, with lots of color photos. Meanwhile, the Red Streak, which often has real stories on its front page instead of just headlines and refers, had no reference at all to "Idol" on its front page and nothing in its snarky back page gossip column Scurrilous (which is supposedly written by a writer living in Canada who's a good friend of the Sun-Times' Canadian chief editors). "Idol" ended up on half of page 19 in the entertainment section, with a color photo and Frazier Moore's AP writeup. Now, both papers have little, if any, distribution in the suburbs and have more or less targeted their audiences as single apartment-dwellers who spend a lot of time at bars and dance or rock clubs. And both papers are basically run by middle-aged types trying to get down with the young people. Could it be that the folks at the Red Streak have figured out that *their* audience is not "Idol"'s main audience (teenybops, families and suburban listeners to "lite hits of the 80s, 90s and today with no hard rock and no rap" radio stations) and decided not to get too attached to the show? Probably--and it's interesting that the Trib-owned tab, the parent paper of which has always been accused of being too suburban, made a bigger deal over Reuben's win than the tab owned by the Sun-Times, the paper that's always been considered more of a city folks' paper. I have no other profound statements to make, but I just found it interesting. BTW, as for the main papers, the Tribune had a picture of Reuben and Clay below the fold and over the table of contents with a refer to a page 12 thumb-sucker by TV critic Steve Johnson about the appeal of "Idol" (Johnson, who loves NPR and traditional and insurgent country acts you'll never on Today's Hot New Country stations, ripped the show apart last year but seemed more accepting this time). Meanwhile, the Sun-Times had a photo over the front page nameplate and a refer to Phil Rosenthal's regular TV column, where he continued to be skeptical about the results in the same way he's been about "Idol" all season (at one point he was even screaming "FRAUD!"). And I'm guessing that in New York, the Times and the Sun didn't mention "Idol" at all on the front page, the News and Newsday had boxes or ears on the front page with refers and the Post splashed it all over the front page with the headline "REUBEN'S OUR IDOL!!!!--YOU SAW IT LAST NIGHT ON FOX 5!!" Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 15:56:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Fri May 23 14:56:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: <109.23e69dac.2bffc857@aol.com> In a message dated 5/23/2003 1:20:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MJeffries@KRW.com writes: > the Post splashed it all over the front page > with the headline "REUBEN'S OUR IDOL!!!!--YOU SAW IT LAST NIGHT ON FOX 5!!" Actually I have yesterday's Post here. The main headline is "YALE BOMB - Blast hits after Bush speaks nearby" with a big picture of President Bush, a map of Conneticuit and markers where Yale and the Coast Guard Academy (where the President spoke) are located. There are two boxes above it -- the one on the reader's left says "Idol Vote, Oh So Close" and a picture of Ruben. The box on the right says "Roger's Victory 299" and a picture of Roger Clemens. If I remember my layout class correcty, the right box is for the more important story since that's where the eye naturally finishes reading in English speaking countries. FOX 5 never got a mention. TVG --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 16:00:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Fri May 23 15:00:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: <125.220b8f38.2bffc92e@aol.com> In a message dated 5/23/2003 2:56:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TelevisonGrl@aol.com writes: > Conneticuit Connecticut -- good grief, am I glad it is Friday. TVG --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 17:06:13 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Fri May 23 16:06:13 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: <133.201c3e1c.2bffd8ee@aol.com> MJeffries wrote... > (SNIP) OK, enough exposition--here's how the two young-skewing tabs covered > the "Idol" finals yesterday. (SNIP) PGage writes... I am interested in what newspaper "coverage" of the American Idol contest means -- or should mean. As a popular TV show, I could see it being "covered" in the entertainment section, much as they might review the season ending episode of *Friends* or *24*. I could see it being covered as a popular culture phenomenon, much as pet rocks or cell-phones-in-the-movies might be covered. Or are papers really covering the competition? Is who won or lost this show news in and of itself? My only exposure to AI was the last minute or so of each show, as I turned on my local (well, most often, east-coast feed) fox affiliate a tad early to make sure I did not miss *24*. They do some kind of quick run-down of the singers, and from that my daughters and I early on concluded that the "BBB" (Big Black Brother) was far and away the best -- and I gather that is the fellow who won. My family also agreed that the BBB and a few of his closest competitors were head and shoulders better than the winner from that last season of the show, whom we have heard sing on a couple of other shows since. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 17:18:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Anthony Foglia) Date: Fri May 23 16:18:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers In-Reply-To: <133.201c3e1c.2bffd8ee@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 May 2003 PGage@aol.com wrote: > MJeffries wrote... > > (SNIP) OK, enough exposition--here's how the two young-skewing tabs covered > > the "Idol" finals yesterday. (SNIP) > > PGage writes... > I am interested in what newspaper "coverage" of the American Idol contest > means -- or should mean. As a popular TV show, I could see it being "covered" in > the entertainment section, much as they might review the season ending episode > of *Friends* or *24*. I could see it being covered as a popular culture > phenomenon, much as pet rocks or cell-phones-in-the-movies might be covered. Or are > papers really covering the competition? Is who won or lost this show news in > and of itself? Actually, yes. It seems that like Survivor, and The Bachelor, the winning itself is important. For example, Zap2It has recaps of all the big reality shows. But I'm surprised or shocked. It's no different than a sporting event. It is usually in the entertainment section, but if it's a big enough story, like the first Survivor, it'll be on the front page. And if the ratings are doing well, there might be a blurb about ad prices in the business section. --Anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Is that drooling problem you have due to genetic inbreeding, or are you just really attracted to me?" -- Bucky, "Get Fuzzy" From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 17:36:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Fri May 23 16:36:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140C1@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > MJeffries wrote... > > (SNIP) OK, enough exposition--here's how the two young-skewing tabs > > covered > > the "Idol" finals yesterday. (SNIP) > > PGage writes... > I am interested in what newspaper "coverage" of the American > Idol contest > means -- or should mean. As a popular TV show, I could see it > being "covered" in > the entertainment section, much as they might review the > season ending episode > of *Friends* or *24*. I could see it being covered as a > popular culture > phenomenon, much as pet rocks or cell-phones-in-the-movies > might be covered. Or are > papers really covering the competition? Is who won or lost > this show news in > and of itself? It probably depends on which paper you read. For the most part, newspapers kept "Idol" back in the entertainment section, unless someone local was appearing on the show (I would totally expect the Birmingham and Raleigh papers to make the show the front page topic, since the finalists were from those two cities.) I don't think *any* paper--including the two Chicago mini-tabs that I looked at--was putting the show in the front section every week. Most likely, the papers that you would expect to do thumb-suckers and what-does-it-all-mean pieces did them, and the ones that are shallower may've stuck with the play-by-plays and personality pieces. Still, for the most part, they stayed back in the entertainment section, as the Red Streak and the Sun-Times did yesterday. In fact, considering that the Sun-Times did a lot of "Bachelor" and "Joe Millionaire" articles (especially when the "Bachelor" finalist who was the eventual winner of this last series was a Chicagoan) and was having Rosenthal doing detailed play-by-plays of every "Survivor" episode from about halfway through the first series to the end of the third series in Friday papers, it's surprising that the Tribune put "Idol" up front in both the main paper and their young-skewing tab spinoff paper. For a comparison, today's RedEye front page splash is on what's being added to Lake Michigan water (which is the primary water source for most Chicagoans) referring to a story on pages 3 and 4, the first two news pages in the paper, with a box saying that there's no paper Monday and another on a feature on Chicago in the movies, with a sports head at the bottom on Annika Sorenstram's performance yesterday. The Red Streak's head is "IT'S ALL GOOD," which refers to (a) Sorenstram (story in sports), (b) a high school senior who after being told that he would not graduate from a Catholic school because his parents couldn't pay the tuition and being written up by Richard Roeper in his Sun-Times column, will graduate after all thanks to an anonymous donor who covered the tuition, and (c) the Bush tax cuts (last two stories on page 3, the first news page). (Conrad Black, who owns the Sun-Times, ain't a liberal.) The boxes/refers next to the nameplate are for a fashion feature and a review of "Bruce Almighty" (the head is "JIM'S BIG EGO," so I assume that Red Streak's critic doesn't like Jim Carrey too much--I'm wrong, he gave it three stars). To get back in track on television, the Trib's RedEye in their TV highlights column list the stations by their network affiliations, with one exception: Trib-owned WGN. If they recommend this week's "Gilmore Girls," the channel's always identified as "WGN" instead of "WB." Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 17:52:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Pollak, Melissa) Date: Fri May 23 16:52:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: PGage wrote: make sure I did not miss *24*. They do some kind of quick run-down of the singers, and from that my daughters and I early on concluded that the "BBB" (Big Black Brother) was far and away the best -- and I gather that is the fellow who won. ME: You should read Aaron's piece on the Fox Fall preview: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/5878254.htm Melissa From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 18:34:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Fri May 23 17:34:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: <16e.1eedbde8.2bffed8b@aol.com> PGage wrote: make sure I did not miss *24*. They do some kind of quick run-down of the singers, and from that my daughters and I early on concluded that the "BBB" (Big Black Brother) was far and away the best -- and I gather that is the fellow who won. ME: You should read Aaron's piece on the Fox Fall preview: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/5878254.htm PGage writes... Thank-you Melissa, I always enjoy reading Aaron - but not exactly sure of the significance of the piece you refer to above. I think that Ruben is who we refer to as BBB in my house, and I think he did wind up winning. I don't have any image in my head of who the other guy, Clay is, but if he was one of the ones featured in the last couple of weeks, then we thought he was pretty good too. Perhaps your point is the same as what I made at the end of my last post -- that both of these two are significantly better than the AI1 winner (against whom I would be willing to put just about any member of my local church's soprano or alto section)? Or do you mean that Aaron seems to think that the other guy was better than BBB? I don't understand the rules of AI, or how someone "wins" (I know there are celebrity judges and viewer call-ins, but I have not heard of what the scoring criteria are, or how the two sources of ratings are combined to arrive at a winner) -- all I know is that, in the brief snippets we heard each week leading into *24*, we liked BBB best. "LAST MAN SINGING WINS Last week, those of us in attendance at the Fox network's fall preview in New York were visited via satellite by the two finalists of "American Idol 2," Ruben Studdard and Clay Aiken. From L.A. they staged an informal sing-off, Ruben performing "Just the Way You Are," Clay singing "Unchained Melody."Ruben was flat on his high note and ended poorly, but the crowd clearly preferred him to Clay, who hit his highs beautifully. Perhaps it's just as well if Ruben is the winner after tonight's final round (7 p.m., Channel 4, with the announcement during the 7 p.m. show Wednesday). With his exquisite, Johnny Mathis-like phrasing, Clay also has a recording contract in his future." --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 18:52:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Fri May 23 17:52:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: <1c4.a057c5c.2bfff1ce@aol.com> >I don't understand the rules of AI, or how someone "wins" (I >know there are celebrity judges and viewer call-ins, but I have not > >heard of what the scoring criteria are, or how the two sources of >ratings are > combined to arrive at a winner) You're thinking of "Star Search." Except for the audition process, and a Wild Card callback in which the Americal Idol judges pick the contestants, it's all a popularity contest by phone. Although it never seems to matter much what Ms. Abdul's view is, the judges are there to give a critical view for the home audience to pretty much ignore. And as Randy Jackson noted on a repeat of "The Daily Show," unlike "Talented Child Star" and "Star Search," "American Idol" doesn't have actors and comedians voting on the musicians. Simon Cowell is an established recordinf executive, Paula Abdul has been in the business for 2 decades, and Randy Jackson has been a session musician and producer. They actually know what they're doing. And Simon has to be rough, since it makes him money if the chosen singer does well. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 19:04:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Pollak, Melissa) Date: Fri May 23 18:04:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: PGage writes... Perhaps your point is the same as what I made at the end of my last post -- that both of these two are significantly better than the AI1 winner (against whom I would be willing to put just about any member of my local church's soprano or alto section)? Or do you mean that Aaron seems to think that the other guy was better than BBB? ME: Yes, Aaron nailed it. One is clearly more talented and has more stage presence than the other, and not the one who won. PGage: I don't understand the rules of AI, or how someone "wins" (I know there are celebrity judges and viewer call-ins, but I have not heard of what the scoring criteria are, or how the two sources of ratings are combined to arrive at a winner) ME: For several reasons, the judges wanted a particular outcome and through what they said or didn't say about the performances, they were easily able to manipulate public opinion. Actually, by doing this, they did what they were supposed to do, which was to put on a good show. As a someone who became a loyal viewer when it became clear that the most deserving contestant (including AI1) had a good chance of NOT winning, I am a perfect example of why of the show was so successful. Melissa From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 19:10:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Anthony Foglia) Date: Fri May 23 18:10:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 23 May 2003, Pollak, Melissa wrote: > PGage writes... > Perhaps your point is the same as what I made at the end of my last post -- > that both of these two are significantly better than the AI1 winner (against > > whom I would be willing to put just about any member of my local church's > soprano or alto section)? > Or do you mean that Aaron seems to think that the other > guy was better than BBB? > > ME: Yes, Aaron nailed it. One is clearly more talented and has more stage > presence than the other, and not the one who won. That's funny. Didn't Salon have a story last week saying pretty much that same thing, that one was talented and one wasn't, but they said Ruben was the talented and Clay the untalented one. And I think I saw something similar too. --Anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Let me explain, Patrick. Here, on Earth, there is a gap between seeing someone you like and having sex with them we like to call 'conversation.' In Jeff's case it can last up to ten years." -- Steve, Coupling: "The Man with Two Legs" From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 19:22:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Pollak, Melissa) Date: Fri May 23 18:22:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: Anthony wrote: That's funny. Didn't Salon have a story last week saying pretty much that same thing, that one was talented and one wasn't, but they said Ruben was the talented and Clay the untalented one. And I think I saw something similar too. ME: I've seen so many articles that I can't keep them straight, but if someone said Clay lacked talent, it must have been Jayson Blair. You can make up your own mind. All of Clay's performances are posted on www.claytonaiken.com. By the way, the site also lets you see the main storyline of the show -- Clay evolving from geek to chic. Melissa From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Fri May 23 23:36:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Fri May 23 22:36:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] "Idol" Chatter: A Tale of Two Mini-Papers Message-ID: PGage wrote... I don't understand the rules of AI, or how someone "wins" (I know there are celebrity judges and viewer call-ins, but I have not heard of what the scoring criteria are, or how the two sources of ratings are combined to arrive at a winner) Tom wrote... You're thinking of "Star Search." Except for the audition process, and a Wild Card callback in which the Americal Idol judges pick the contestants, it's all a popularity contest by phone. Although it never seems to matter much what Ms. Abdul's view is, the judges are there to give a critical view for the home audience to pretty much ignore. Melissa wrote... > For several reasons, the judges wanted a particular outcome and through > what they said or didn't say about the performances, they were easily able to > manipulate public opinion. Actually, by doing this, they did what they were > supposed to do, which was to put on a good show. As a someone who became a > loyal viewer when it became clear that the most deserving contestant (including > AI1) had a good chance of NOT winning, I am a perfect example of why of the > show was so successful. PGage writes... I actually have not seen the new Star Search - I just know from the ambient media that there is a "nice" judge (Abdul) and a "mean" judge (the British fellow) on AI, and I know from the end of the shows that they have a phone number for the audience to call in and vote, so I just assumed there was some kind of two-part system. But this does get back to my original question about the status of a show like AI, and how it should be covered journalistically. Someone posted that it was appropriate to cover shows like this the same way that athletic competitions are covered. This is an interesting proposition, worthy of consideration -- though I would be a little more impressed with it if there was some evidence that there was an existence for these shows outside of the Box of TV. Legitimate competitions that are covered in the sports sections of newspapers (and sports segments of news broadcasts) traditionally are shown, and even (as in the case of the modern NFL) dominated by TV, but would still exist, and generate interest, outside of TV (granted that distinction has become increasingly fuzzy in recent decades). I don't think that *Superstars* should have gotten a lot of legitimate journalistic coverage as to the process and outcome of the competition (there may have been a little) -- though a show like that may justify some pop-culture observation and commentary. If it is true that AI only exists inside the TV Box, and further true that the producers of the show have their thumb on the scales, influencing in any significant way the outcome, then it seems that any claim to journalistic coverage of it as a legitimate competition is completely undermined. It may be an entertaining show, and millions (yea, hundreds of millions) of Americans may watch it closely, with consequent cultural and economic implications, but as a legitimate competition worthy of coverage as any kind of news event, it becomes the equivalent of the WWF. Perhaps I am misreading Melissa's comments; she may just be a passionate fan of one of the [loosing] "players", venting her frustration by attributing his loss to external factors. Sports fans do this all the time -- it wouldn't take much for me to make the argument that ABC and the NBA colluded with the officials to make sure the Lakers lost in order to pump up interest in basketball by getting new blood into the Finals. Of course I don't *really* believe this (do I?) - and if I really did believe that things like this happened I would lose interest in the NBA, and in newspapers and newscasts that wasted space and my time masquerading journalistic coverage for what would amount to nothing but free advertising. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sat May 24 15:26:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (J B) Date: Sat May 24 14:26:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] American Idol coverage In-Reply-To: <20030524160229.C68FA20F7B@three.pairlist.net> Message-ID: <20030524182415.31284.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> While personally I'm not much interested in AI, I have no real problem with it and based on the TV ratings and the physical response of the the American population (calling/webbing a vote, calling radio stations to request, going to the AI concerts and buying Cd's), media coverage should be expected for something that the American public is obviously interested in. And while it's a commercial venture, that shouldn't preclude coverage - otherwise, there wouldn't be much coverage of sports in America. And if it's something ultimately frivolous, it's fine to reduce the coverage to froth, silly or gossipy - nothing really wrong in reflecting America as it is - we don't need to take ourselves that seriously. However, there is obviously a line ... like when the SF Chronicle used the 'end-of-WWII' 100-pt headline typeface to tell us that JOE (montana) IS FINE (after back surgery). __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sat May 24 17:12:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Sat May 24 16:12:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] American Idol coverage Message-ID: <16f.1f04c00a.2c012bb6@aol.com> jbelkin wrote... > While personally I'm not much interested in AI, I have > no real problem with it and based on the TV ratings > and the physical response of the the American > population (calling/webbing a vote, calling radio > stations to request, going to the AI concerts and > buying Cd's), media coverage should be expected for > something that the American public is obviously > interested in. And while it's a commercial venture, > that shouldn't preclude coverage - otherwise, there > wouldn't be much coverage of sports in America. > > And if it's something ultimately frivolous, it's fine > to reduce the coverage to froth, silly or gossipy - > nothing really wrong in reflecting America as it is - > we don't need to take ourselves that seriously. PGage writes... I think I may not have made myself clear; I have no objection to AI coverage in the newspapers. My question has been, what should the nature of that coverage be? Coverage as a pop phenomenon? Yes, of course. Coverage of the financial implications for the multimedia corporations and advertisers? Of course. Coverage of the implications for TV programming? Of course. Coverage of the actual competition? I am not so sure about that. If the outcome is determined or substantially influenced by the producers of the show, for whatever reason, and if the "competition" only exists as a TV program, then journalistic coverage of the "competition" is: a) perpetuating a fraud and b) only serving as free advertising to promote the financial interests of the producers. If *24* were a huge cultural phenomenon I would not be surprised or concerned if newspapers gave over substantial space on the entertainment or pop culture pages to coverage of the cliffhanger ending; I would be quite concerned if prominent space was given on their news pages to the attack on President Palmer's life. Obviously, one reason for this concern would be that President Palmer is not real. If the producers are influencing the winner of AI, then that competition is not real either, and should not be covered as news per se. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sat May 24 22:16:03 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (John I. Carney) Date: Sat May 24 21:16:03 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: [RemotePatrol] Thanks for the memos In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20030524164017.00b772c8@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030524164017.00b772c8@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <3ED0190A.2000307@localnet.com> Tom Heald wrote: >Most of late night is taking the week off. > > One exception, although I don't hold much hope for it, is "Unscrewed with Martin Sargent," a new comedy show premiering 11 p.m. ET Monday on TechTV. (It will run Monday through Thursday, with a rerun on Saturday night.) I've always found Sargent somewhat annoying during his appearances on "The Screen Savers," TechTV's flagship, but some others seem to find him funny. http://www.techtv.com/unscrewed -- John I. Carney | jicarney@localnet.com | http://members.localnet.com/~jicarney ... The church on the square: http://www.gbgm-umc.org/shelbumc * TagZilla 0.041 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 15:52:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (J B) Date: Sun May 25 14:52:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage In-Reply-To: <20030525160253.E216420F5D@three.pairlist.net> Message-ID: <20030525185035.16929.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> <> But couldn't you argue that about anything (twisting Hisenberg's scientific theory about you affecting the outcome of any event you're watching) Take the Annika Sorenstam situation. A) By us covering the event from all angles: sports, psychology, sociology, etc ..., aren't we benefting the golf tournament with free advertising and you could argue that the competition is not entirely pure and free - each course is carefully groomed to appear best on TV and each course is set up differently to benefit certain players and like Annika, each of us carry our own different burdens when we step up to the tee. AI favors those who have TV charisma and who can sign pop songs well. A young opera singer with great pipes and a regimented singing style could not pull it off and perhaps a early 1960s Barbra Streisand would not have won with her then awkward stage presence ... or maybe that would've been charming. And the mass public has a say. Yes, it's overtly or subtly influenced but the public does have a voice in the decision making. By what others told me, it seemed the judges did not favor Reuben as the ultimate winner going into the finals so he had to overcome that overt/subtle judgment ... But to continue, that argument could be carried onto an election. It too is quite staged and as an Americans, we really only have two choices even at most local levels - and of course, there are definitely certain economic benefits depending on who wins so .... I am just being the devil's advocate here. I think that you bring up a good point about journalism 2003 - where does it go from here? As newspapers, newsmagazines, nightly national network news reach their lowest penetration - who is on the wrong course? The journalists or us the people? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 17:06:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Sun May 25 16:06:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage Message-ID: <79.11c56ad2.2c027bbe@aol.com> PGage wrote... > Coverage of the actual competition? I am not so sure > about that. If the outcome is determined > or substantially influenced by the producers of the > show, for whatever reason, and if the "competition" > only exists as a TV program, then journalistic > coverage of the "competition" is: a) perpetuating a > fraud and b) only serving as free advertising to > promote the financial interests of the producers.>> Jbelkin wrote... > But couldn't you argue that about anything (twisting > Hisenberg's scientific theory about you affecting the > outcome of any event you're watching) > > Take the Annika Sorenstam situation. A) By us covering > the event from all angles: sports, psychology, > sociology, etc ..., aren't we benefting the golf > tournament with free advertising (SNIP) PGage writes... I'm not sure the Uncertainty Principle applies here, but the basic point you are making is specifically different from the one I have been making about AI coverage. Coverage of sports and politics does provide a measure of free advertising, and certainly both team owners and politicians count on, and take steps to increase, their coverage in the sports and news sections of newspapers and newscasts. While this has had a corrosive effect on the quality of news coverage of both sports and politics, I suppose it must be acceptable as long as the events which generate the coverage are legitimate in and of themselves. It would not be legitimate to cover WWF, or the winner of the long running "Bud Bowl" advertising campaign, in the sports sections, nor would it be legitimate to cover the winner of a Party-run "push-poll" in the news section. I think the most obvious and difficult journalistic judgment call this mirrors is should the major political conventions be given 3 hours of prime time each day? To the extent that the outcome is predetermined and stage managed to maximize free publicity for the winner, the answer might be "no." Of course, the answer might still be "yes," because unlike the WWF, or the NBA or AI for that matter, there is arguably a public interest in the process of nominating the major political candidates, not just in the outcome. (Of course there is also a public interest in the process and outcome of the candidates of minor political parties too -- but that is a separate problem.) In my original post I noted that I did not clearly understand the competition in AI, but I suspected there was a significant role played by the producers (i.e., judges). I later learned that the competition is actually determined by viewer call-ins, but that the judges (selected and paid by the producers, and apparently in at least one case the judge is a producer) are actively seeking to manipulate the voting to maximize their own financial interests. If this is true (and not just the frustration-induced paranoia of a disappointed fan - a phenomenon that all of us fans are familiar with) and the producers are significantly manipulating the results, then I believe it is inappropriate for news outlets to cover the actual competition as a news story per se. Again, to be clear, I do not object to the lifestyle/entertainment/financial aspects of AI coverage. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 18:38:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Pollak, Melissa) Date: Sun May 25 17:38:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage Message-ID: PGage wrote... In my original post I noted that I did not clearly understand the competition in AI, but I suspected there was a significant role played by the producers (i.e., judges). I later learned that the competition is actually determined by viewer call-ins, but that the judges (selected and paid by the producers, and apparently in at least one case the judge is a producer) are actively seeking to manipulate the voting to maximize their own financial interests. If this is true (and not just the frustration-induced paranoia of a disappointed fan - a phenomenon that all of us fans are familiar with) and the producers are significantly manipulating the results, then I believe it is inappropriate for news outlets to cover the actual competition as a news story per se. Again, to be clear, I do not object to the lifestyle/entertainment/financial aspects of AI coverage. ME: Okay. Whaddaya want from me? To admit to being frustrated over the outcome? Well, yes, I am. Trying not to sound too much like the fanatical fan that I am, I'm amazed that a TV talent contest actually delivered...a...major talent. But I'm also amazed that I would witness such an unusual -- and masterful -- manipulation of public opinion. (It helps to tell myself that this was done on Fox, the network that gave us "Alien Abduction" and "Conspiracy Theory: Did we Land on the Moon?".) The scientist in me truly appreciates being able to observe a stupendous example of the ease at which public opinion can be swayed. And, I've got to give Fox a tremendous amount of credit for using that strategy to put on a show worthy of the ratings it received -- and the front page of my local paper. Melissa From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 19:14:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Sun May 25 18:14:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage Message-ID: <147.1248adcb.2c029a0f@aol.com> Melissa wrote... > Okay. Whaddaya want from me? To admit to being frustrated over the > outcome? Well, yes, I am. Trying not to sound too much like the fanatical > fan that I am, I'm amazed that a TV talent contest actually > delivered...a...major talent. > > But I'm also amazed that I would witness such an unusual -- and masterful -- > manipulation of public opinion. (It helps to tell myself that this was done > on Fox, the network that gave us "Alien Abduction" and "Conspiracy Theory: > Did we Land on the Moon?".) The scientist in me truly appreciates being > able to observe a stupendous example of the ease at which public opinion can > be swayed. And, I've got to give Fox a tremendous amount of credit for > using that strategy to put on a show worthy of the ratings it received -- > and the front page of my local paper. PGage writes... I apologize if I wrote something that offended you (not knowing much about the show, I am not sure where the sensitive areas might lie). I tried to acknowledge that, in competitions that I care about a lot, I engage in a little paranoid fantasies myself. I still have not been able to determine the actual answer to my question: Is it widely known and acknowledged that the producers manipulated the outcome of the "competition" on AI (nobody would be shocked to hear that professional wrestling was predetermined), or is the competition presumed to be fair and open, such that producer-manipulation (if indeed there was any) would be considered something of a scandal? --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 20:04:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Sun May 25 19:04:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140C8@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > I still have not been able to determine the actual answer to > my question: Is > it widely known and acknowledged that the producers > manipulated the outcome of > the "competition" on AI (nobody would be shocked to hear that > professional > wrestling was predetermined), or is the competition presumed > to be fair and > open, such that producer-manipulation (if indeed there was > any) would be > considered something of a scandal? If the viewership had been "manipulated" by the comments of the judges during the first "Idol" competition, Tamyra Gray would not have been eliminated with three weeks to go and Justin Guarini would've been dumped from the top 12 early on in the race. Despite what some people would have you believe, trying to anticipate what teenage girls want (the majority of the viewers who actually call in to "Idol" to vote, I suspect, if you could do a breakdown of what is basically calling a recorded phone message or sending a pre-written text message on a cell phone) is not a perfect science--just ask the ladies who were in Eden's Crush, the first U.S. "Popstars" group (or even better, the second and last U.S. "Popstars" group, which enjoyed absolutely no success at all). Also, no matter what happens, the twelve finalists from each series are contractually tied up with 19 Entertainment, the show's production company, for a year from the completion of each series, meaning that no matter what happens their career is in 19's hands for twelve months unless they get released. Basically, all 19 has called upon the finalists to do outside of the top two (Kelly Clarkson and Guarini) is do the concert tour, record the highlights album and appear on some of the present series. Within the next few months, the first series finalists will be back to auditioning and karaoke nights, while Tamyra will probably have a hit album if Clive Davis doesn't fiddle around too much (and hopefully she'll still have her "Boston Public" gig), Kelly enjoys the Top 10 status of her album (and the current status of being AOL's most-streamed vidclip for her "Miss Independent" single) and Guarini disappears into the ether. Meanwhile, if someone on Broadway wants to revive "South Pacific" and Clarkson can act, get her as Nellie Forbush before she becomes too jaded and loses her freshness. Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 20:22:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Tom Roche) Date: Sun May 25 19:22:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Ten, or so, Posts at once In-Reply-To: <20030525160248.36B1720F4C@three.pairlist.net> References: <20030525160248.36B1720F4C@three.pairlist.net> Message-ID: Most people, one would hope, "get" Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Those that don't maybe miss all the ultra-rapid dialog whizzing by and then bang its over. Disclaimer: the guys behind this farce de farce worked with me on a buncha those SGC2C eps way back when. There is, not unexpectedly, a new-ish elaborate Aqua Teen fan site, athf.com, that outdoes the official carton net site by a mile, with far more elaborate episode guides and etc. I only bother to mention this 'cos four or five new episodes are ready to ship and start tonight, Sundays,1145PM. Whatcha really out to check out is the audio mix; I got to sit in on one last week and the sound designer, Roy Clements, is just mad, insane. Here in Atlanta on one of our two PBS stations (lucky us) we get a somewhat routine Saturday night of tame Brit-coms, "Are You Being Served?" and that ilk. But they have just picked up the droll mocumentary series "People Like Us" - mebbe you look in your listings, it's great. Another local listing shows Ken Burns JAZZ will repeat next month, the whole thing is splendid as ya likely know. That Norah Jones concert DVD I edited passed 700,000 in sales last month. Can't say we were expecting that level of success. We had to beg the label to put the TV show on DVD for months. Afraid of over-exposure, they said at first. Geez Is it time for Letterman to give "Will It Float?" a rest? Please? No one commented on Conan's claymation show the other day. It was only so-so, but they get an A for effort. The on-purpose mistakes that were fixed by puppeteers' hands entering the screen were the best part. But the frame rate, maybe 2 or 4 frames a second, made it look very low budget. Which it must have had to have been. What was the deal with that look of seething bitterness on Tracy Morgan's face on the home base bye-bye at the end of the season finale last week? Granted a big fuss was made over Chris Kattan's last show, but he should have been glad his last show didn't include a reprise of "I'M BRIAN FWLLOWS!" clearly one of the worst recurring sketches in SNL history - and there are sho-nuff many to choose from. tom From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 20:44:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Sun May 25 19:44:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Anyone watching Family Guy?/Trio-Andy Richter Message-ID: <24.3eeb9a40.2c02aec8@aol.com> Has anyone been watching Family Guy since it began airing on Cartoon Network, I know that some of you had never seen the show, just wondering if you have given it a chance yet, and does anyone know if it is doing alright in the ratings? Also, did anyone catch TV Outside of the Box on Trio when they did an episode on Andy Richter Controls the Universe? It was very interesting, especially to see that they all knew the show would be cancelled due to poor ratings, they still worked their asses off though, they followed the making of the season finale, which sounds hilarious, it is a shame it never aired... Matt --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 20:50:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (John I. Carney) Date: Sun May 25 19:50:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Ten, or so, Posts at once In-Reply-To: References: <20030525160248.36B1720F4C@three.pairlist.net> Message-ID: <3ED1568E.904@localnet.com> Tom Roche wrote: >Most people, one would hope, "get" Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Those that don't maybe miss all the ultra-rapid dialog whizzing by and then bang its over. Disclaimer: the guys behind this farce de farce worked with me > I have to admit that when Adult Swim first started, I didn't care for ATHF -- but it quickly grew on me and I now think it's hysterical. -- John I. Carney | jicarney@localnet.com | http://members.localnet.com/~jicarney ... The church on the square: http://www.gbgm-umc.org/shelbumc * TagZilla 0.041 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 20:50:02 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jeffries, Mark) Date: Sun May 25 19:50:02 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Anyone watching Family Guy?/Trio-Andy Richter Message-ID: <47EC15D4F5CEEC419EE573D9731D39D2011140C9@exchange.krw.com> Content-Type: text/plain > Has anyone been watching Family Guy since it began airing on > Cartoon Network, > I know that some of you had never seen the show, just > wondering if you have > given it a chance yet, and does anyone know if it is doing > alright in the > ratings? The entire Adult Swim block is doing extremely well right now for CN, especially in the 18-24 demos. A few weeks ago, while in a hotel room in Washington, I saw "Family Guy" for the first time on CN. Better than some of the descriptions I'd heard, even though not in "Simpsons" territory (or even "Futurama" territory). I'll try to give it another shot. And is it just me, but does the "30th-Century Fox Television" logo gag on "Futurama" seem to be undercut when it's immediately followed by the 20th Television logo with the same Fox fanfare? And although I know that technically 20th-Century Fox Television and 20th Television are separate divisions (one's network production, the other's syndication), why do we have to have essentially the same graphics and music played twice in ten seconds? Mark Jeffries mjeffries@krw.com mjsaints@aol.com --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 21:10:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Jon Delfin) Date: Sun May 25 20:10:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Anyone watching Family Guy?/Trio-Andy Richter In-Reply-To: <24.3eeb9a40.2c02aec8@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030525200329.00ba7180@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> At 07:42 PM 5/25/2003 -0400, Matt wrote: >Also, did anyone catch TV Outside of the Box on Trio when they did an episode >on Andy Richter Controls the Universe? It was very interesting, especially to >see that they all knew the show would be cancelled due to poor ratings, they >still worked their asses off though, they followed the making of the season >finale, which sounds hilarious, it is a shame it never aired... funny you should mention. Trio is showing it again Monday at 4 and 8 p.m. ET. jd ps re Letterman: I caught a few minutes of one show last week. he spent a good two minutes talking about the Martha Stewart movie that aired last Monday, and showed a clip that I gather he had shown the previous night. then he talked about the size of Dr. Phil's coffee mug, and pulled out the new super-sized Late Night mug. again. I felt like I was watching a rerun. someday soon they'll just show the same first twenty-five minutes every night, and have Dave show up for the second half of the show. From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 21:14:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Ben Scripps) Date: Sun May 25 20:14:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Ten, or so, Posts at once In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Tom Roche wrote: > Here in Atlanta on one of our two PBS stations (lucky us) we > get a somewhat routine Saturday night of tame Brit-coms, "Are > You Being Served?" and that ilk. But they have just picked up > the droll mocumentary series "People Like Us" - mebbe you look > in your listings, it's great. I'll second that--BBC America used to run "People Like Us", usually on Saturday afternoons; it popped up after a rerun of "Are You Being Served?" (my biggest guilty pleasure), and it took me a couple minutes to realize that it wasn't real. Keep an eye out for the "air travel" episode, centering around Heathrow Airport--easily the best half-hour I've spent in a long, long time... If memory serves, they describe Heathrow as "similar to a small country, complete with police, medical personnel, restaurants, shops, and even an international airport."... --Ben From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 21:32:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Sun May 25 20:32:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage Message-ID: >I still have not been able to determine the actual answer to my question: Is >it widely known and acknowledged that the producers manipulated the outcome > of the "competition" on AI, or is the competition presumed to be fair and open, such that producer-manipulation (if indeed there was any) would be considered something of a scandal? As far as the judges are concerned, they no more influence the final result than Roger Ebert determines whether The Matrix Reloaded will be #1 at the box office. The producer, singer and music executive are there to say "That was some of your best work," and/or "that really sucked." This either influences the viewing audience to vote for or against a pick. Or, it influences one voting block to vote more. Are the production staff manipulating things behind the scens so that things look better on camera? Certainly. This ranges from a random song choice fishbowl "filled with songs titles" that only had four different songs suited to each contestant, to what appeared to be a lighting crew preference late in the game for Mr. Aiken, which made it seem more and more like he was playing Vegas. That 6-7 weeks into the voting competition Ruben was seemingly declared unbeatable by 2 of three judges is not particularly proof of conspiracy. Neither is a glaring amount of ineptitude in delivering the voting margin 1,300, 13,000 130,700 via note cards and teleprompter on the night of the final reveal. Did producers select Studdard and/or Clay as the American Idol? I think it's doubtful. American Idol 1 viewers played it safe with Ms. Clarkson, as last summer's contest was more a contest to pick the next Britney Spears of Justin Timberlake. And nobody seems to have had a problem with that result. The winner, of the earlier british Pop Idol, Will Young had the fastest-selling debut single in UK history, and it didn't particularly matter that he's gay. My psyhcological theory on AI (US) seasons one and two is that in the first series, teen girls were voting for someone they saw as a surrogate. Role Model Barbie. This go around, they voted for the guys they wanted to date. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 22:10:01 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Sun May 25 21:10:01 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Honoring God & America... Message-ID: PGage writes... I guess this might be little OT - (but only if NBA basketball is considered an independent event and not a TV show).... At the start of tonight's Western Conference playoff game (already unusual because the crowd had to be evacuated when a kitchen fire set off Arena alarms signaling a problem) the PA announcer introduced the National Anthem with the words: "Please stand and remove your hat to honor God and America...". Now, I have seen literally thousands of sporting events on TV in my life, every one of them preceded by the NA. I have attended scores of professional events in person, each one of them preceded by the NA. I pay particular attention to the NA ritual, since my personal practice (and celebration of American values) is to not stand for the NA (though I do remove my hat, and bow my head in silent prayer). I do not recall ever hearing the announcement being made that singing the NA was an attempt to honor God. Granted, tonight's game was in Texas, and I hear they do things differently down there (I suppose they probably sing the NA to honor both God and country before every execution too). I find it a violation of both my religious and patriotic values to imply that the *Star Spangled Banner* honors God, but that's just me, and sometime last month I learned that not everyone always agrees with me. I guess this is what happens when David Stern and the NBA money boys conspire to keep California teams, and Clay, out of the Finals... --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 22:42:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Pollak, Melissa) Date: Sun May 25 21:42:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage Message-ID: PGage writes... I still have not been able to determine the actual answer to my question: Is it widely known and acknowledged that the producers manipulated the outcome of the "competition" on AI (nobody would be shocked to hear that professional wrestling was predetermined), or is the competition presumed to be fair and open, such that producer-manipulation (if indeed there was any) would be considered something of a scandal? ME: Hey, I sent that article by Lisa de Moraes with the subject heading, "everything you could want to know about AI2." Okay, you're benefiting by my having read the message boards. Oh, before going into that, the wildcard show results certainly reflected what the producers wanted: pretty girls. Up until that point, there was only one among the 8 finalists who came anywhere close to that criteria. Three of the four chosen were pretty girls. Clay was the fourth. Clearly, he was very much wanted in the show, particularly because of his ongoing evolution from geek to chic. I thought a couple of the guys among the 32 finalists were strong enough to be in the top 12 but they weren't given the opportunity to compete in the wildcard show. Clearly, the producers had sent the message: pretty girls and that geek. I read that in the early shows, Clay was polling an astonishing 70 percent of the vote, leaving the remaining 30 percent to be carved up among the other contestants, with little difference in the number of votes each received. Here's a recap of the most telling piece I read. I'm pretty sure the article came from Newsweek. When it was down to the final 3, Simon wanted Kimberley Locke off the show next (although he had wanted her in the top 3 about mid-way through the series). During rehearsals before the show, Kimberley was nailing her performances while Ruben was struggling. Simon was extremely unhappy (yes, the judges watched the rehearsals). Ruben managed to get his act together, and Simon withheld much-deserved praise for Kimberley's performances. The producers got the desired result. Another troubling incident. As everyone who watched the final three show knows, Clay forgot some of the words to "Vincent," a cardinal sin on AI -- because if the vast majority of the public cannot tell the difference between a good performance and a great performance -- a lot more people know when a performer has forgotten the words. It turns out that right before the show, the producers told Clay the song was too short for the time allotted and needed another verse added. The studio audience was told, but not TV audience, that that was the cause of the glitch. Simon told Clay that his performance was horrible and never noted the last minute change and the fact that the other two contestants had drawn much better selections. Nevertheless, the producers wanted Kimberley booted that week, and she was, after Clay came back with astonishing performances of "Mack the Knife" and "Unchained Melody." During all the weeks of the show, Ruben received almost no criticism, despite his appearance, the sameness of his performances (can he interpret a song?), lack of clarity in his voice, safe selections, inability to speak on camera, and occasional pitch problems. The judges made it clear to the audience that they thought he should be in the final two -- and the audience, not knowing any better, was easily and intentionally duped and went along with what the judges wanted. In contrast, some of Simon's criticism of Clay was constructive (and Clay received high praise for responding to it), but some of it made no sense at all. For example, both Randy and Paula had nothing but good things to say about Clay's performance of "Grease" because not only was it far better than the actual song itself (my opinion -- it's probably the next to the worst song ever written by the BeeGees) but Clay took the risk of responding to Paula's comment from the week before by poking fun at himself. Both Randy and Paula acknowledged what he had done, but inexplicably Simon pronounced the performance horrible/terrible. Clay was also constantly being described as "too Broadway" -- as if having a versatile voice and major stage presence were bad things for a pop idol/recording artist to have. It was also an attempt to send a subtle message to all the young girls hitting the phone lines that he might be gay. The bottom line is that had the judges honestly evaluated Ruben's performances, he most likely would not have made it into the top two. Despite what I said before, for the most part, Clay received far more honest evaluations from Simon than Ruben did, including praise like "best performance in the competition so far" after "Don't Let the Sun Go Down" and "best performance of all three AI competitions" after "To Love Someone." Ruben was told that the competition wouldn't be the same without him, but none of the judges could be specific about why they said that. The result they got was the best the producers could have hoped for -- an uncertain outcome that generated through-the-roof ratings and two recording artists (with very different audiences), one of whom in particular will sell a lot of records. Melissa --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- _______________________________________________ tvbarn2 mailing list tvbarn2@tvbarn.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/tvbarn2 From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 22:48:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Pollak, Melissa) Date: Sun May 25 21:48:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage Message-ID: TOMALHE@aol.com wrote: This go around, they voted for the guys they wanted to date. Ruben? Thanks for putting a smile on my face. Melissa From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 22:56:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Keith Privett) Date: Sun May 25 21:56:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Ten, or so, Posts at once In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030526015400.62567.qmail@web10001.mail.yahoo.com> > What was the deal with that look of seething bitterness on Tracy Morgan's > face on the home base bye-bye at the end of the season finale last week? > Granted a big fuss was made over Chris Kattan's last show, but he should have > been glad his last show didn't include a reprise of "I'M BRIAN FWLLOWS!" > clearly one of the worst recurring sketches in SNL history - and there are > sho-nuff many to choose from. > His NBC sitcom (the reason he's leaving) was bumped from the fall NBC schedule to midseason replacement. If I were Tracy, that might peeve me... and make me want to tell Lorne to get me an Orange soda.... From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 23:16:00 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Sun May 25 22:16:00 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage Message-ID: <47.2e33f511.2c02d265@aol.com> > >Basically, all 19 has called upon the finalists to do outside of > >the top two (Kelly Clarkson and Guarini) is do the concert tour, record the > >highlights album and appear on some of the present series. Within the next > >few months, the first series finalists will be back to auditioning and > >karaoke nights, Contestant Jim Verraros, (a very nice polite young man), starts shooting a gay romatic comedy in Arizona June 15-30. --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 23:16:05 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (tvbarn2@tvbarn.com) Date: Sun May 25 22:16:05 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage Message-ID: <1a9.15308280.2c02d267@aol.com> >>This go around, they voted for the guys they wanted to date. >Ruben? >Thanks for putting a smile on my face. What teenage girl doesn't want to bring home a sweaty 350 pound African=20 American man for a remake of "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner, I Think We Might= Need=20 To Send Out For More Food, Until Then ... Let's Hope He Fills up On Dinner=20 Rolls." Speaking of the big ol' Ruben sandwich, Gossip columnist Mickey Barnes has=20 this interesting item : "American Idol Ruben is a heart attack waiting to=20 happen.=A0 The huge man from Alabama had FOX suits so worried he might keel=20= over with=20 a coronary on the final episode of the contest they had an ambulance at the=20 stage door, and a full cardiac paramedic team in the wings."=20 Hey Ryan .... is his blood pressure 130, 13,000 or 13,700 over 80? --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests tidy. --- From tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Sun May 25 23:30:04 2003 From: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com (Pollak, Melissa) Date: Sun May 25 22:30:04 2003 Subject: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage Message-ID: This time I laughed out loud. Twice. -----Original Message----- From: TOMALHE@aol.com [mailto:TOMALHE@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:14 PM To: tvbarn2@tvbarn.com Subject: Re: [tvbarn2] Re: AI coverage >>This go around, they voted for the guys they wanted to date. >Ruben? >Thanks for putting a smile on my face. What teenage girl doesn't want to bring home a sweaty 350 pound African = American man for a remake of "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner, I Think We = Might Need=20 To Send Out For More Food, Until Then ... Let's Hope He Fills up On = Dinner=20 Rolls." Speaking of the big ol' Ruben sandwich, Gossip columnist Mickey Barnes = has=20 this interesting item : "American Idol Ruben is a heart attack waiting = to=20 happen.=A0 The huge man from Alabama had FOX suits so worried he might = keel over with=20 a coronary on the final episode of the contest they had an ambulance at = the=20 stage door, and a full cardiac paramedic team in the wings."=20 Hey Ryan .... is his blood pressure 130, 13,000 or 13,700 over 80? --- Formatting was automatically removed in order to keep the digests = tidy. --- _______________________________________________ tvbarn2 mailing list tvbarn2@tvbarn.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/tvbarn2